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Top end - 3.73 gears

This is a discussion on Top end - 3.73 gears within the Automatic Transmission forums, part of the Drivetrain category; Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove ...

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    Member 1TA LS1's Avatar
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    2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS6

    Top end - 3.73 gears

    Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove today: 5mph to 60 mph, much quicker. But top end, around 60-90mph, I felt like it was slower than before. I figured I'd lose top end power. My next mod is going to be a Torque converter (2800 stall) and a shift kit. Also, I was planning on installing a cam next year. Any ideas how to get more top end power?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1TA LS1 View Post
    Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove today: 5mph to 60 mph, much quicker. But top end, around 60-90mph, I felt like it was slower than before. I figured I'd lose top end power. My next mod is going to be a Torque converter (2800 stall) and a shift kit. Also, I was planning on installing a cam next year. Any ideas how to get more top end power?
    Cam, Headers, Heads, and a tune.

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    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1TA LS1 View Post
    Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove today: 5mph to 60 mph, much quicker. But top end, around 60-90mph, I felt like it was slower than before. I figured I'd lose top end power. My next mod is going to be a Torque converter (2800 stall) and a shift kit. Also, I was planning on installing a cam next year. Any ideas how to get more top end power?
    its faster.. just your powerband moved around..

    a 2800 stall would be a waste of money really... the smallest should be a 3000.. depending on what cam you get, you could stay at a 3k or go higher if needed for the cam..

    3500 is good for every day street use with a mild cam.. something like a 228 or something..

    ...... get LT's and a cutout.. before you do anything else though.. you get the sound and power..

    after the LT's and converter, get an ls6 intake if you have a 98-00 model.. or preferably a FAST 90/90, depending on what size cam you want to go with later.

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    Member 1TA LS1's Avatar
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    2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS6

    2001, so I don't need an ls6 intake. Probably going with a 224 cam for my next big mod. Unfortunately, LT's are a problem in Cali. - Not going through that again..long story.

    I have a borla cat-back and installing a cut-out once I get the stall in. I wanted to get a 3400 stall, but I keep hearing it's too much from every transmission shop I talk to. (I guess they don't know shit about our cars). I should just go with my gut. So, a 3400 stall and a tune get my kick in power back at the top-end?

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    the cut out will help your top end if thats what you want.

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    LS1 chosen son lemons12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1TA LS1 View Post
    2001, so I don't need an ls6 intake. Probably going with a 224 cam for my next big mod. Unfortunately, LT's are a problem in Cali. - Not going through that again..long story.

    I have a borla cat-back and installing a cut-out once I get the stall in. I wanted to get a 3400 stall, but I keep hearing it's too much from every transmission shop I talk to. (I guess they don't know shit about our cars). I should just go with my gut. So, a 3400 stall and a tune get my kick in power back at the top-end?
    that good about the intake..

    next mod should be a stall... and yes a 3400 would be perfect... usually shops are filled with a lot of old guys that think when you have a 3400 stall your car doesnt move untill 3400.. not that case anymore.... you can pick up at 2000rpms with a 3400 just fine.. are converters lock...

    go with the 3400, you will be happy.. also get the cutout... then get a cam

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    Retired NOT tired SteveC's Avatar
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    The difference between 3.23's and 3.73's (RPM wise) is 500RPM on the tach, you should not see any difference in the top end.

    I have a Y3000 2.0STR converter coupled to 3.73's, and it makes the vehicle alot of fun to drive, HOWEVER if I had to do it all over again, I would get a 3600 stall. Yank makes a wonderful product.

    SteveC

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    Member 1TA LS1's Avatar
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    Wish I could do everything at once. Just ordered a Yank 3400 stall converter. I also got a cut-out. It's going to be f-ing loud, can't wait to piss off the neighbors.

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    You probably would benefit from a tune- just so your computer 'knows' how fast you are going- shift points are determined using both RPM and speed (and load, throttle position, etc) and right now the computer is seeing incorrect info- it senses vehicle speed from the VSS in the transmission, and, if it doesn't have the right rear end ratio the data will be wrong-

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1TA LS1 View Post
    2001, so I don't need an ls6 intake. Probably going with a 224 cam for my next big mod. Unfortunately, LT's are a problem in Cali. - Not going through that again..long story.
    I'm in Cali so i'm going to ask, you get caught with the headers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by volleybill View Post
    You probably would benefit from a tune- just so your computer 'knows' how fast you are going- shift points are determined using both RPM and speed (and load, throttle position, etc) and right now the computer is seeing incorrect info- it senses vehicle speed from the VSS in the transmission, and, if it doesn't have the right rear end ratio the data will be wrong-
    Not only benifit from a tune but probably need it with a stall converter. Once the converter is installed it will trick the computer into thinking the trans is slipping and the computer will set misfire codes,,,then go into limp mode.
    I installed a Fuddle 3400 stall and it's great,,,although I had to go into the tune and desensitize the misfire tables until the codes went away. I hear this is pretty common among the auto LS1's with stall converters.

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    TunedByFrost supporter rel3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    ... usually shops are filled with a lot of old guys that think when you have a 3400 stall your car doesnt move untill 3400.. not that case anymore....
    Actually, that was NEVER the case with higher stall speed converters.

    If anyone who works professionally in a shop (especially a performance shop) thinks that a car doesn't move until the stall speed is reached...I'd immediately search for another shop. Being an "old guy" myself, I'm 100% sure that age has nothing to do with cluelessness. You can be an idiot, or simply unable to understand how some mechanical items work, at any age.

    BTW, a looser converter will not add or help top end. It will help low/mid range tremendously, but that's it. It WILL help your car get into the upper rpm's quicker, giving a "feeling" of more top end, but datalogs would show you different that what you feel. DEFINITELY a worthwhile investment for a street/strip car. My PI Vigilante 3600 (actual stall more like 4200) was too loose for stock engine IMHO, but is perfect now with my 6800 rpm shifting 226 baby cam.

    Like said above, you NEED to have tune changed to compensate for gear swap. Car's probably shifting too soon now and just "feels" slower. Also, like said above you'll need tune tweaking for converter as well. I know (before tuning) my car would not shift 2-3 until it bounced off the rev limiter a half dozen times.
    Last edited by rel3rd; 10-28-2008 at 06:46 PM.
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    Member squee's Avatar
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    Even living in California, you should be able to get around the headers no problem. As long as you have cats, I don't think they would give you much shit. I doubt they would even do a visual inspection to be honest.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    Even living in California, you should be able to get around the headers no problem. As long as you have cats, I don't think they would give you much shit. I doubt they would even do a visual inspection to be honest.
    The problem isn't the headers per say,,,,it's moving the cats from their stock location that Cali doesn't like,,,,thats what you can't get around.

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    Member squee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    The problem isn't the headers per say,,,,it's moving the cats from their stock location that Cali doesn't like,,,,thats what you can't get around.
    Yea, I know that, but if they don't do a visual inspection, then they won't know. Of course they probably do a visual inspection no matter what. Especially since what type of car it is...

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    I still have stock manifolds on my CETA with a 226 cam and a 3000 stall converter. After an excellent tune the car drives as smooth as stock, with significantly more power. I also still have the stock exhaust but with an electric cutout for the track and stock 3.23 gears.

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    Member 1TA LS1's Avatar
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    I was planning on getting a tune about a month after I get the stall and some other stuff installed.....To answer c5z28 question: I never got caught with LT header, but I had problems selling my 03 Tacoma which had visual problems getting it CA smog legal. I had to go through so much crap getting it back to stock. My first mod was going to be LTs on the Trans Am, but couldn't find a decent shop that would move the cats and don't want to get caught with it later - not worth the $$ for the gains.

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    Retired NOT tired SteveC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1TA LS1 View Post
    I was planning on getting a tune about a month after I get the stall
    You will want to get a 24K trans cooler installed, B&M manufactures a great unit, you also may consider replacing the stock flexplate with a TCI SF29 race grade unit ($199) at the time of the TC install. Look into a TransGo shift kit.

    My vehicle is not lowered, so I opted for a B&M 3 Qt. deeper aluminum transmission pan, more fluid coupled to cooler=lower transmission temperature.

    You will need to get the vehicle on the dyno to correct some settings in the pcm, one being the elimination of the torque management system, and raising of the idle RPM depending on the OD of the new TC. Your shift points will need to be adjusted.

    DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT.

    SteveC

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    Yea, I know that, but if they don't do a visual inspection, then they won't know. Of course they probably do a visual inspection no matter what. Especially since what type of car it is...
    Ya you would be really taking a chance hoping to get by without a visual,,,it doesn't take much for them to flash the mirror under the car.
    The only real way around it is to be willing to switch the car back and forth from headers to manifolds and back again just to get through the sniffer.

    Sounds like alot of work but I guess it depends on how bad you want the extra performance.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    You will want to get a 24K trans cooler installed, B&M manufactures a great unit, you also may consider replacing the stock flexplate with a TCI SF29 race grade unit ($199) at the time of the TC install. Look into a TransGo shift kit.

    My vehicle is not lowered, so I opted for a B&M 3 Qt. deeper aluminum transmission pan, more fluid coupled to cooler=lower transmission temperature.

    You will need to get the vehicle on the dyno to correct some settings in the pcm, one being the elimination of the torque management system, and raising of the idle RPM depending on the OD of the new TC. Your shift points will need to be adjusted.

    DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT.

    SteveC

    Great advice on the cooler,,,it's especially critical if you are hard on the car at all.
    Thats something I just haven't gotten around to doing unfortunately,,,I haven't figured out how or found an aftermarket supplier that is smart enough to tell me how to connect the tranny hard line to another hard line running to the cooler and back again. So I just skipped the cooler for the time being until I have more time to investigate.

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