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Which Stall Speed Would Best ?

This is a discussion on Which Stall Speed Would Best ? within the Automatic Transmission forums, part of the Drivetrain category; Been a while since I posted. No disrespect to the Forum, I've been tied up with a few large projects ...

  1. #1
    Member Redrokit8's Avatar
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    Question Which Stall Speed Would Best ?

    Been a while since I posted. No disrespect to the Forum, I've been tied up with a few large projects on the wife's BMW and that's a whole new learning curve.
    I'm considering getting a new Torque Converter with a conservative stall. I want a little more punch off the line mostly for stop light type encounters. So I wonder if you fellow Forum members would tell me what your set up is for performance street driving. I still have the stock rear pumpkin with the 3:23 pinion. I actually like the 3:23 for all around driving. It turns 2500 rpm at 80 mph but still offers decent acceleration from a dead start. I like the fact that it just barely will spin the tires off the line. I know I'll get a lot of heat about the stock rear but if you look at my signature I'm not over powering the rear at this point. Right now I only have 15K on the car and it has lead a very pampered life. Even if I had to change I would still probably go with the 3:23 ratio. A lot of people seem to think a 3:73 would do better, but then I'm turning more rpm on the highway and that's where I put on most of the miles when it gets taken out. Would appreciate your comments.
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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I would without a doubt get a 3600, even though a lot of people get 3200. Most who go with a 3200 later regret not going higher.

    Also, 2500RPM at 80mph seems awful high to me for a 3.23 gear without me doing the calculation. Are you the original owner? Previous owner didn't swap in a lower gear? What size tires are you running?

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    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I would without a doubt get a 3600, even though a lot of people get 3200. Most who go with a 3200 later regret not going higher.

    Also, 2500RPM at 80mph seems awful high to me for a 3.23 gear without me doing the calculation. Are you the original owner? Previous owner didn't swap in a lower gear? What size tires are you running?
    I agree with Jon. go with the 3600 and put in an aftermarket cooler. Also, you rpm's @ 80 mph are a little high. Check your gear ratio. Either pull the cover off the rear ( good to change the gear lube ) or spin the wheels and count the rotation of the driveshaft. My M6 will do 80 mph at 1800 rpm with 3.42 gears, you should be close to that.
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    My wife has a 2004 GTO with the rare SAP, 18" wheels, K&N Cold Air System, MSD, Ported TB, Frost tune, Denso Iridium, Flowmaster cat-back, 3200 Yank, 75k

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    Waiting on the Tree transamtom's Avatar
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    Get a 3600, with a good tune you will hardly notice it.

    I love mine and I bought it used.

    It's best $450.00 I spent and got me the biggest gain in the 1/4.
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    Member Redrokit8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I would without a doubt get a 3600, even though a lot of people get 3200. Most who go with a 3200 later regret not going higher.

    Also, 2500RPM at 80mph seems awful high to me for a 3.23 gear without me doing the calculation. Are you the original owner? Previous owner didn't swap in a lower gear? What size tires are you running?
    Car has original everything with 15,000 miles. It is definitely a 3:23. 4spd auto. Standard 17" wheel & tires. Little old lady from Pasadena car. I'm the second owner now for 1 & 1/2 yrs.

    Yep, 80 mph @ 2500 rpm. You hit it at 80 and it really jumps up. You can see my mods @ my signature. It definitely seems to be faster than most equivalent
    WS6 .From a rolling start I stayed right on my friends bumper, 2012 Ferrari, to 130. After that he started to pull away. Felt like mine had no more juice at that point. He still can't believe it. Had another similar race and he did pull about 2 lengths on me. Please note that this type of activity is dangerous and unlawful on public roads.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I did the math because it was bothering me.

    You have an auto so the gear ratios in your 4L60E are: 3.06 1st gear, 1.63 2nd gear, 1.00 3rd gear, .70 4th gear (you use your OD gear for calculating RPM at a given speed)

    Stock tire size for your car is 275mm width, 40mm aspect ratio and 17" - which equals a 25.66" tire.

    With all that said, your car would be at 2,368RPM at 80MPH - so you saying 2500 isn't too far off.

    I guess I am used to my T56 which has a much smaller final transmission gear ratio

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    Member Redrokit8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I did the math because it was bothering me.

    You have an auto so the gear ratios in your 4L60E are: 3.06 1st gear, 1.63 2nd gear, 1.00 3rd gear, .70 4th gear (you use your OD gear for calculating RPM at a given speed)

    Stock tire size for your car is 275mm width, 40mm aspect ratio and 17" - which equals a 25.66" tire.

    With all that said, your car would be at 2,368RPM at 80MPH - so you saying 2500 isn't too far off.

    I guess I am used to my T56 which has a much smaller final transmission gear ratio


    Whew, you had me wondering there for a minute. Just as I was sitting down to find the calculation, your reply appeared.
    Thanks Jon. Much appreciated

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    Member Redrokit8's Avatar
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    Question What Do You Think ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redrokit8 View Post
    Been a while since I posted. No disrespect to the Forum, I've been tied up with a few large projects on the wife's BMW and that's a whole new learning curve.
    I'm considering getting a new Torque Converter with a conservative stall. I want a little more punch off the line mostly for stop light type encounters. So I wonder if you fellow Forum members would tell me what your set up is for performance street driving. I still have the stock rear pumpkin with the 3:23 pinion. I actually like the 3:23 for all around driving. It turns 2500 rpm at 80 mph but still offers decent acceleration from a dead start. I like the fact that it just barely will spin the tires off the line. I know I'll get a lot of heat about the stock rear but if you look at my signature I'm not over powering the rear at this point. Right now I only have 15K on the car and it has lead a very pampered life. Even if I had to change I would still probably go with the 3:23 ratio. A lot of people seem to think a 3:73 would do better, but then I'm turning more rpm on the highway and that's where I put on most of the miles when it gets taken out. Would appreciate your comments.


    OK, let me throw in a curve ball here for some opinions. I visited a well known Speed Shop and they told me I would not benefit from a Stall Converter with a stock camshaft. Very insistent on the point. Does anyone here run a Stall Converter with stock cam ?

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    Member initechpeter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrokit8 View Post
    OK, let me throw in a curve ball here for some opinions. I visited a well known Speed Shop and they told me I would not benefit from a Stall Converter with a stock camshaft. Very insistent on the point. Does anyone here run a Stall Converter with stock cam ?
    I have a stock camshaft and I have a stall converter. No i don't a 3600, but I have 1900 cause of the cost when I was rebuilding the transmission. I have to say I feel a difference. I would recommend one.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    The shop doesn't know what they are talking about. Please, do yourself a favor and never go there again lol.

    Yes, a higher stall complimented with the right aftermarket cam will indeed be best for an overall performance gain. However, even with just a stall, your ET will probably drop around 0.5 seconds in the quarter mile.

    Jeff on here can attest to this. He has a stock motor and he is deep into the 12's with his 3200 stall, some tires, and suspension work. Many others have seen the same gains.
    It's on jackstands.

  11. #11
    Member Redrokit8's Avatar
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    Thanks Jon, that's what I was wanting to hear. Maybe I should also consider a good street cam to take advantage of the converter.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    If you have the coin, I would do it...no doubt.

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    Senior Member redbird555's Avatar
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    what they said pretty much^. Dont ever take advice from that shop again a good stall will knock an easy .5 off your 1/4 time and as said with a good tune you will get used to it pretty quickly. A stall converter is definetley not a place where you want to cheap out on. Converter prices range from 200 to well over 1k so it can be a bit confusing.

    The main difference is that the cheaper ones are usually modified units, maybe out of a cavalier or some other small car with a small lockup clutch. This makes them cheap to manufacture and appealing to the average guy who doesnt know better. What people dont know is that the small lockup clutch in those converters can come apart under the heavy v8 power and take out your trans with it.

    Also with the cheaper modified stock type converters many companies will advertise you can get any stall you want, which usually is simply not true. Stall speed is achieved by the angling of the turbine blades and decreasing the diameter of the converter. The problem is that since the converters are just modified stockers the diameter cannot be changed on the blade angle can and at a certain point the negative blade angle will make the converter extremely inefficient. This is why you see people with 3600 Revmax or TCI converters that have gained time but lost trap speed. Usually it is because the converter is simply not as efficient as the one it replaced. Now that is not saying all modified stock converters are bad several companies, Circle D Yank, FTI, PTC etc make converters from modded stock converters but do it correctly in a sense where the stall speed is usually limited to a max of 3200. These converters offer a $400 price tag and will still get the job done for a bolt on car while remaining efficient.

    Ideally the best converter to get though whether you drop the ~$600-700 to get one is a custom billet unit. These are specifically designed by companies with a solid steel front that is CNC'd not only does the casing offer more strength but the area for the clutch lockup is enlarged to take some extreme abuse. Also the converters themselves can be sized according to the makers specs so that they can have the desired stall speed while keeping the blade angle happy and making a very efficient converter. Many times people who install these stalls report no loss or even gains in trap speed because the converter is not getting the engine into its peak powerband faster but it's also transferring the power very efficiently to the wheels.

    With all that said go with what your budget allows. Dont be afraid of the more budget friendly converters as long as you get one from a reputable company like yank, fti, circle d, ptc etc. But if you have the extra money I highly recommend getting a billet one built for what you want out of the car.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    yeah...find a new shop to ask questions. Stall is the best mod you can do and I agree with everyone else.....3500-3600 range or you'll regret it at some point. Plan on a tune.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrokit8 View Post
    . I visited a well known Speed Shop and they told me I would not benefit from a Stall Converter with a stock camshaft. Very insistent on the point.

  16. #16
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    I went through that sorta stuff when I was doing my car. Had old school guys telling me that a 3500 was waaay too big for the street. They're just not used to OD transmissions and lock up converters.

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    Member Redrokit8's Avatar
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    Thanks, everyone, for your feedback. I am going with a stall converter. However, I'm going to throw in a cam and get a 3:73 gear set for the diff. I'm in the process of deciding which cam to go with.

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