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Love the Yank :-)))))

This is a discussion on Love the Yank :-))))) within the Automatic Transmission forums, part of the Drivetrain category; Originally Posted by Durango I am suppose to race against my old car now I will really know what a ...

  1. #61
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durango View Post
    I am suppose to race against my old car now I will really know what a converter really does it feels slower maybe it's becaiuse of the looseness it doesn't hit as hard as it did between shifts!!!!!
    The softer feeling of shifts is normal when a looser converter is installed. It's absorbing alot of the shock.

    Oh you'll be faster alright I went from 13.20's to a 12.76 with just a converter swap, and did that on stock rubber.

  2. #62
    BLKHWK Durango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    The softer feeling of shifts is normal when a looser converter is installed. It's absorbing alot of the shock.

    Oh you'll be faster alright I went from 13.20's to a 12.76 with just a converter swap, and did that on stock rubber.
    Yep the tach is showing 5700 rpm the car is new to me so I really don't know where it shifted before the tune as I installed everything as soon as it came out of storage How the heck will I know I guess if Steve is telling me the computer is telling the tranny to shift at 6 grand it is

    I'll find out this weekend when I call my buddy that bought my old car up and go for a spin the hgw speed here is 65mp so from a dig to 65mph we can see who is who lol

  3. #63
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Well, the best way to tell would be to log the car with software like HPtuner and see exactly where the car is shifting.

    When mine was a bone stocker, it would shift 1-2 at 56-5700 and 2-3 right at 6,000 when I was logging it with HPtuner. My tach also showed it being a bit short on the 1-2 but I just couldn't pinpoint how much by the factory tach alone. I could only see that the 2-3 was shifting a bit higher.
    So when I started tuning it, one of the things I did was bump up the 1-2 shift point until I had it shifting at 6,050 on the button by logging it with the laptop. I left the 2-3 alone.

  4. #64
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    shift points are also not an exact science. I'm commanding a 6500 shift point to get a 6300 shift on the 1-2. There's more slip on that 1-2 shift and it's one of those things that it helps being able to log/watch and make adjustments as you need them. My 2-3 and 3-4 shifts are all a lot closer to my commanded but that 1-2 took some fiddling to get it where I wanted it. You could always tell steve to give you a 6200 shift on the 1-2 and that would put you closer to your 6k shift point. The thing is though on stock valve train and stock cam I don't know that it'd really be worth it. That stock cam has made it's HP and TQ by the 5700 so with the stall you're probably better off getting the shift and putting the car back into usable power again. That's just my opinion.

  5. #65
    BLKHWK Durango's Avatar
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    One thing I know

    I had a lid and a Flowmaster axle back in my 99 and I was runing a 13.78 I put in a program with the superchip programmer shifting at 6000 or 6100 and I ran a 13.38 at 106.9 mph and the car was obviously better on the seat of your pants feeling!!!!!Oh and I had a 4mph gain with that tuner in the 1/4 I was impressed

    I raced my buddy when we took our cars out 100km.h roll oh sorry 60 mph roll to 100mph and my new car stock no tuning except the cat back and lid took my old ride by 2 to 3 lenghts and he had the programmer tune in and a cat back and exhaust same cat back and exhaust so now with the stall I have to try that again I hope I still pull him it doesn't feel stronger so we will see

    If I greak 13 sec I don't drink but I'll have a beer lol

  6. #66
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Just saw this thread and did not read all of the way through it, but here are some cliffs for what most of what was done for stall tuning for this car, and why this is a little unusual.

    Misfire tables are adjusted to eliminate the random cruise unlocking, 3rd gear lockup is eliminated, tq mngmnt gone, FMC table modified, all pressure, time and modifiers changed, 4th gear lockup raised 6-7 MPH and allowed to unlock with less throttle, and finally, lower PWM levels increased past the point of need for every normally operating stall that I have tuned of the same size. I don't eliminate it all together in the case of smaller RPM stalls (physically larger; more clutch area) for ride comfort. Getting the stall to lockup where the converter is close to 1:1 in 4th is the key for smooth operation with no PWM, but then users complain that lockup comes late. People have different expectations for portions of trans tuning.

    This PCM will be updated to push lockup north and eliminate PWM 100%, but out of the other 50-something times I've tuned this size yank stall, none of them NEEDED to have PWM even as high as is in his tune. It's true that shudder can be more pronounced on tall geared cars such as this one, it just not normal for it to happen as it is.

    I really hope that moving lockup north a bit and eliminating PWM gets rid of his shudder. A good many of the stalls that do it, do it regardless of how lockup is commanded unfortunately. They usually come out.

  7. #67
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I looked at my tune because this PWM talk peaked my interest.

    Evidently this isn't the same table I was referring to when I said I bumped my TCC apply pressures.

    I went into TCC DC vs. line pressure vs. Trans Temp.....
    I make the maximum 100 accross the entire board and then I make the minimum 90 accross the board.

    This gives me a nice firm clutch apply without the slippage or soft apply normally associated with them.

  8. #68
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    It indirectly raises clutch pressure since it starts modulation at a much higher point. 9 out of 10 owners HATE that hard lockup and complain (from your settings of 100/90), so I work to find a middle of the road by getting lockup MPH up and allow some modulation.

  9. #69
    BLKHWK Durango's Avatar
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    My gut feeling

    My gut tells me I have a bad converter
    If all the Yank tuned doesn't clutch rattle or doesn't chatter then my thoughts are I got a bad one !!!!!!
    I sure hope not but these guys ansered a lot of my questions and you too Steve but man I don't like buying something paying top dollar and it's bad !!!!!! I don't mind the way you tuned it at all I would be very happy with it if it wasn't for that freaking rattling or clunking rattle sound from 70 to 80km/h It sounds like the rivets are looose and the plates are hitting togheter almost I was thinking of recording it and make you guys listen to it but I'm just getting tired and almost at the point of throwing the converter in the garbage !!!

    I'm 1/2 tempted to get my second PCM tuned with the PWM off and see how that works but I'm tapped out !!!!!That way I would of seen the difference and if still rattled I could of kept the one I like the most Just thought of that now I might just do that!!!!

  10. #70
    BLKHWK Durango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Just saw this thread and did not read all of the way through it, but here are some cliffs for what most of what was done for stall tuning for this car, and why this is a little unusual.

    Misfire tables are adjusted to eliminate the random cruise unlocking, 3rd gear lockup is eliminated, tq mngmnt gone, FMC table modified, all pressure, time and modifiers changed, 4th gear lockup raised 6-7 MPH and allowed to unlock with less throttle, and finally, lower PWM levels increased past the point of need for every normally operating stall that I have tuned of the same size. I don't eliminate it all together in the case of smaller RPM stalls (physically larger; more clutch area) for ride comfort. Getting the stall to lockup where the converter is close to 1:1 in 4th is the key for smooth operation with no PWM, but then users complain that lockup comes late. People have different expectations for portions of trans tuning.

    This PCM will be updated to push lockup north and eliminate PWM 100%, but out of the other 50-something times I've tuned this size yank stall, none of them NEEDED to have PWM even as high as is in his tune. It's true that shudder can be more pronounced on tall geared cars such as this one, it just not normal for it to happen as it is.

    I really hope that moving lockup north a bit and eliminating PWM gets rid of his shudder. A good many of the stalls that do it, do it regardless of how lockup is commanded unfortunately. They usually come out.


    That's why it doesn't chatter when I drive it in 3rd gear I love it that way drives perfect !!!!!! When you say they ususally come out you mean they come out of the car to be send for service :-(

  11. #71
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    It indirectly raises clutch pressure since it starts modulation at a much higher point. 9 out of 10 owners HATE that hard lockup and complain (from your settings of 100/90), so I work to find a middle of the road by getting lockup MPH up and allow some modulation.
    Ah okay I gotcha.

    Wow, I wonder why owners hate the hard lockup?? Seems they all want tire screeching shifts, so why not have the converter lockup like it means it too It's just like another shift anyway.

    Guess I'm just a minority. I like to feel it working.

  12. #72
    BLKHWK Durango's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ah okay I gotcha.

    Wow, I wonder why owners hate the hard lockup?? Seems they all want tire screeching shifts, so why not have the converter lockup like it means it too It's just like another shift anyway.

    Guess I'm just a minority. I like to feel it working.
    Yeah I like the tires to scream when it shifts ;-) I guess there's nothing I can do until I get the new tuning done Yank says it shouldn't do that tuned right that it could be line pressure TCC etc... :-( I guess it's going to be a cut your loses scenario or live with it if this doesn't fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. #73
    BLKHWK Durango's Avatar
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    Confirmed car is slower with the converter

    I just did a side by side race from 60mph to 110 mph We did that 5 times Last time we raced without the TC I had my buddy by 4 to 5 lenghts and With my Yankk SS3200 side by side again I pull him by 1/3 of a lenght at 80mph , man I am so disapointed It works ok when I foot brake it to take off but it's slower all the way through after that I'm really thinking of taking the converter out and going back to stock!!!!!!!
    Last edited by Durango; 04-22-2011 at 06:52 PM.

  14. #74
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    can I get that post in English?

    Are you saying you went from winning by 4-5 lengths to now not even a car length? If that's the case you have issues. From a roll especially you should be stomping his guts out.

  15. #75
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have something wrong with it. I've never regretted putting a converter in anything.

    Unless that converter is just way off base for the combo you are running. Some converters are built with specific goals in mind, STR ratings, etc...and some of them will drive looser than others even though the stall rating is the same on paper. Sometimes a loose converter that isn't very efficient will actually drop some MPH at the track, something you don't see in a more efficient well built converter.

    If this converter was built with a particular camshaft in mind, then that could be your problem. You may want to wait until a cam is installed and see how it reacts.

    I can tell you I ran a 3400 fuddle with a 2.1 STR in my 02 SS, it was otherwise a stocker, and it ran beautifully after the converter install. From a stop or 60 mph on up, didn't matter. But I had that converter specified for a very very mild camshaft upgrade. The cam never happened though.

  16. #76
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    From a roll especially you should be stomping his guts out.

  17. #77
    BLKHWK Durango's Avatar
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    Hhahahaha

    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    can I get that post in English?

    Are you saying you went from winning by 4-5 lengths to now not even a car length? If that's the case you have issues. From a roll especially you should be stomping his guts out.
    Yes English is my second language lolllll

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