considering gear swap

**02WS6dream** · 01-02-2007, 11:42 PM

What's up ya'll... Well I've finally got to a point where i'm looking at spending cash on my first real performance mod after spending almost 3000 on fixing sh#t! (wish the first couple owners had loved this car like i do!) At first I was leaning toward a stalled TC, but after lots of talking and reading i'm now leaning toward a gear swap instead. This is my only car and hardly ever sees highway driving -- except once-twice a year i drive it 2000 mile round trip to north/south carolina for vacation. I see that 3:73 is populor choice for the A4 (02 ws6 A4--3.23 currently) I also read that speedo and shift points will be messed up after swap. Curious about MPG tradeoff--mostly in town driving--and cost of having the tune issues resolved. No local tuners...considering Nelson mail tune. Also have borla cat back, air lid, and KN. Worth paying for the tune or is there a more economical solution? How much difference would the gear swap make in acceleration? Drawbacks other than MPG; top speed etc... Thanks for experience/opinions!

**02blkws6** · 01-03-2007, 04:59 PM

If I were you, I buy a yank or vigilante stall converter instead of gears.

**juiced99ws6** · 01-03-2007, 06:05 PM

if you go with the TC then get in contact with fuddle racing. they are a sponser here and make kick ass TCs for about the cheapest you will find. you will see a bigger gain from the TC and wont need a tune. Gear swap you will gain a couple tenths. i did the same swap umm top speed will still be enough to scare ya i promise. other drawback would be getting worse traction if you dont have sticky tires. if you do have sticky tires then your 10 bolt may shit on ya.

**02WS6dream** · 01-03-2007, 11:55 PM

what influenced you to go gears vs. stall (juiced 99)? And anyone else wanna chime in with pros and cons of either??? Have read that many say first mod on auto should be stall; and both guys i've talked to in person who's opinion i value tell me gears are the way to go--that i wouldn't be happy with everyday driveability of stall. No tune with stall??? What RPM stall with mods i listed??? I read a thread where ls2tuner argues stall not the most effective mod with stock cam... I do not plan on doing anything else to the car for a long while after this decision.... What are your suggestions/reasons???

**Danger731** · 01-04-2007, 12:14 AM

Stall - better acceleration by keeping you in your power band,
Gears - better acceleration by turning your rear faster.

Rather stay in my power band. imo.

**98Z-28Camaro** · 01-04-2007, 02:31 PM

I have a 98z and did the gears first. I wished I would have did the stall. I have an a4 with 3.73s. Saw about a .5 second drop in time and top speed is around 160. I don't know exactly since the speedo don't go that high. I blew my tranny up with nos and gears so unless you do a build over stock, I would go with stall. Although is produces more heat then a stock torque conveter, I personally think it is easier on the trans then gears because of the fact that the stall lets the motor get into its powerband quicker therefore accelerating through first quicker creating less heat in the clutches and band area. As long as you use a lockup converter then heat won't be an issue at highway speeds with the stall. The only way I would stray from a stall is if I had long drives at 35 mph where the trans is in 3rd or od for a long time, where the stall in slipping. At those speeds a lot of heat would be created. But I don't think so much heat that would cook your trans either. With gears, your transmission's clutches and bands have to work harder and longer (because of you not being in the powerband of the motor) therefore creating more heat in that area. Heat kills transmissions fast.

Heat in the converter area is a lot better than heat in the clutch area in my opinion. (Yes, I know that they use the same fluid to cool and operate, but heat affects different parts differently.)

As you can tell I am leary of the 4l60e because I have burnt two up in less then a year and 8000 miles. I went the gear route and burnt two up, I would go with stall (can't have worse luck.) Just buy a quality stall that locks up. Fuddle racing is the one I am looking hard at.

That is my opinion and take it with a grain of salt. Please correct me if I am wrong. Sorry for the novel.

**juiced99ws6** · 01-04-2007, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by 02WS6dream

what influenced you to go gears vs. stall (juiced 99)? And anyone else wanna chime in with pros and cons of either??? Have read that many say first mod on auto should be stall; and both guys i've talked to in person who's opinion i value tell me gears are the way to go--that i wouldn't be happy with everyday driveability of stall. No tune with stall??? What RPM stall with mods i listed??? I read a thread where ls2tuner argues stall not the most effective mod with stock cam... I do not plan on doing anything else to the car for a long while after this decision.... What are your suggestions/reasons???

Sorry if it came off that way.. I have both.

Stall Pros: Lets you get into your powerband on launch. Will give you a solid kick in the gut upon take off. Much better acceleration

Stall Cons: You will need a trans cooler, and shift kit is also reccomended because your transmission will run hotter. I have already been through the first stage one tranny and am now going with a stage 2 and a trans temp gage. Also gas mileage will suffer mildly.

Gears Pros: Shortens each gear and will help your rear turn faster which will help you see better acceleration through the full gear range.

Gears Cons: Needs a tune to adjust your speedo. higher rpms will mean a little worse gas mileage.

Both are good mods, both will blow the tires right off your car as well if you dont get stickier tires. Also both will be harder on your rear which is already weak. hope this helps..

**juiced99ws6** · 01-04-2007, 05:55 PM

OH and...

No you do not need a tune with the stall. with mods listed a 3000- 3200 stall would be worth while. As for what LS2 Tuner said, a stall is a good mod on any A4 car but keep in mind if you do plan on camming the car in the future you want your stall speed to coincide with your cams powerband. a 3200 Stall with a mild cam setup and 373 gears can be pretty deadly on the street

**02WS6dream** · 01-05-2007, 02:36 AM

Thanks guys for all the good info!!!! Sure i'll be posting up once i've made a decision!

**juiced99ws6** · 01-05-2007, 02:52 PM

ok and I forgot to tell you, check the Texas forum.. there is a LS1 meet in Dallas at the end of month if you are interested in a little drive

BadBlueBird* · 01-05-2007, 02:58 PM

High stall w/ your stock gears will be fine. Trust me, youll love it

**02WS6dream** · 01-05-2007, 11:42 PM

so no tune issues with stall? shift points etc. will still be fine? So how much ball park with tranny cooler and all would this mod cost when all said and done??? How hard is this on the tranny? Just had mine rebuilt in august and not looking to do it again soon

Sorry for all the questions--very interested but very new!

**02WS6dream** · 01-05-2007, 11:48 PM

...and little drive sounds fun--i'll check it out

**bluefields88** · 01-06-2007, 12:28 AM

I was thinking about putting in a new torque converter. I have the A4 and usually drive using the overdrive. the only time I don't use overdrive is to scare my gf or when I feel like having some fun. my engine usually runs around 1,300 RPM on the streets and 2,000 on the freeway, how fast will the engine be spinning with the 3,000-3,200 stall?

**silverz28camaro** · 01-06-2007, 05:58 AM

i think gears are better for the car as far a durability cause it gives your tranny more leverage and doesnt have as muck stress on the clutches when shiftin

the converter is cool but you gotta see that it ters shit up , rearend, overheatin tranny, yeah you can get a coller to fix this and a 12 bolt rea

me personally i go the 2000 stall and 373 over my 273 and saw .8 increase in time and my rear end doesnt suffer 1.79 60 ft

**juiced99ws6** · 01-06-2007, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by 02WS6dream

so no tune issues with stall? shift points etc. will still be fine? So how much ball park with tranny cooler and all would this mod cost when all said and done??? How hard is this on the tranny? Just had mine rebuilt in august and not looking to do it again soon

Sorry for all the questions--very interested but very new!

no tunes issues whatsoever. fuddle converter= 400$ tranny cooler about 75$ and to be extra safe you could find a deep pan i think around 150$ for your tranny. Your tranny should be just fine. Only thing to take into mind is the added heat which shouldnt be an issue with the cooler and deep pan.

**juiced99ws6** · 01-06-2007, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by bluefields88

I was thinking about putting in a new torque converter. I have the A4 and usually drive using the overdrive. the only time I don't use overdrive is to scare my gf or when I feel like having some fun. my engine usually runs around 1,300 RPM on the streets and 2,000 on the freeway, how fast will the engine be spinning with the 3,000-3,200 stall?

on the highway it will seem identical to stock because of the lockup clutch in it. around the city when its unlocked its usually between 2,000 and 2500 rpms til the converter locks up and then once again it will drop back down to normal