3400 or 3600 fuddle?

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 12-31-2010, 06:40 AM

IM currently trying to choose between a 3400 or a 3600 Torconverter from fuddle. I found a good deal on both but not sure which is better. I want good daily driving and somewhat decent gas milage but i dont wnat ot kick myself in the ass for not getting a high enough TC in the first place.

**bills98ta** · 12-31-2010, 09:37 AM

Stock cam, 3400 / upgraded cam, 3600 - 3800
Either will be street friendly... Also, you want a locker TC...

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 12-31-2010, 10:24 AM

I thought all of them were lockup converters? epsecialy at lower stalls?
so a stock cam and a stock rear 2.73 gears a 3400 would be a better option then? And getting a good deal with a 3400, wuold going with a fuddle be ok? are they a decent TC? better than revmax i assume LOL (weres sarge lol)

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 12-31-2010, 10:41 AM

well unless someone can talk me out of it, im getting the fuddle 3400. REALLY good price and cant pass up the opportunity. AND the wife said i could get it

also can someone give me a better picture on the specs of one. Ive read that a fuddle 3400 has a STR of 2.1. IS that ok for a street car? and what can i expect with it in a realitivly stock powered TA?

**Firebirdjones** · 12-31-2010, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by JoshuaGrooms83

well unless someone can talk me out of it, im getting the fuddle 3400. REALLY good price and cant pass up the opportunity. AND the wife said i could get it

also can someone give me a better picture on the specs of one. Ive read that a fuddle 3400 has a STR of 2.1. IS that ok for a street car? and what can i expect with it in a realitivly stock powered TA?

The fuddle 3400 with the 2.1 STR is the exact converter I currently run in my 02 SS. At the moment my car still has the stock cam, but the converter was specified for me from Fuddle with a camshaft in mind of something around 224-228 at .050 dur.

I've had it about 3-4 years now, (can't remember exactly). It's been great. I spent the extra ~$200 to upgrade to their better clutch setup which I believe also included a billet end. Was about $650 or so at that time.
It drives around like a loose converter should, flashes up above the rated stall speed just a tad, but I am still running the stock cam and 3.23 gears.
I plan to keep the 3.23's, but a larger cam will tighten up the converter a bit since the torque curve will move higher, which is fine for my intentions.

I know a couple others here that run the Fuddle with success, Orion is one, as well as 67camaroRS/SS. As far as I know they have been happy too.

The only problem I'm aware of with Fuddle, is they have since went out of business shortly after I bought my converter 3-4 years ago. From my experience as well as others, their product was good, but their customer service left a bit to be desired, with many unreturned phone calls and emails. Otherwise, I'm happy with it.
I would assume you are buying used Fuddles?? Or did you find a couple new ones that have been laying around the last 3-4 years??

**Firebirdjones** · 12-31-2010, 11:17 AM

As far as the revmax, since they are somewhat still in their infancy, I'd probably pass.
At the time of my Fuddle purchase (3-4 years ago) they had already been around for a few years that I'm aware of. Although their website at the time claimed they had something like 25 years experience behind them, for what that's worth

At that time I was actually getting ready to purchase a Precision Industries Vigilante converter, who'm had specified a 3200 stall for my application. Right near my purchase I had talked to a few Fuddle owners who were happy, some of which I respect a great deal. So I dove over to Fuddle.
Keep in mind since I upgraded my Fuddle, the price difference between that and the Vigilante was only about $150 at the time. Not enough savings to sway me either way.

Now that I look back,,,,Precision Industries is still in business,,,,,while Fuddle is not. I couldn't predict the future then,,,(still can't now

) but I would prefer to have a converter in the car from a manufacture that is still around if you know what I mean.

I also put this converter in a bone stock tranny that is still at the moment working fine. So I went into this knowing that at some point the tranny itself might fail, at which point a full tear down and rebuild would be done along with another new converter. Well that day still hasn't come, it's still kicking.

With all that said, if it were me, I'd save your coin and just go with Precision Industries, Coan, Yank. Spend the extra money and know you have something that will last along with a company that will (more than likely) still be around.

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 12-31-2010, 11:42 AM

Ya its a used one but with low milage or has been sitting around without use so hes trying to get rid of it.. Guy was going with a yank4000 i believe. Wanted somthing bigger (of course lol) I know fuddles gone out of buisness but i have heard that you can have a TC rebuild if you need too. but another company. but for the price, I could buy 2 of these for the price of one yank or Vig 4000

but i was looking at a 3200 at one time but i keep hearing that eventually your gonna want a bigger one lol. So i figure i get a nice sized converter but not TOO big to not like it at first, plus with an eventual cam and head up grade, like you said, it should tighten up a little when the torque curve gets pushed up. OR leave the cam stock and go with some kind of basic forced induction. But for now, i think this 3400 will be a good investment with very littl eover head.

**Firebirdjones** · 12-31-2010, 11:56 AM

Used converters I tend to shy away from. That's alot of work to install only to find out it has some sort of problem.

Up to you really, but to me it's not worth saving $4-500.

As far as the stall rating, it's really up to the individual as far as feel. You hear alot of stories of people buying one stall, and then wanting something even higher. With that thought process, keep in mind that Precision Industries offers one free re-stall after purchase. So if you don't like it, send it back for a re-stall.

I've had alot of cars with loose converters, so I have a good idea of what I like to tolerate.
For my 02, it's more of a driver, with plans to keep the 3.23's, and only a mild cam, I knew I didn't want to go hog wild on the converter.
The 3400 seems to fit that bill perfectly for me. A mild street car with good manors and a little bit of snap that still knocks down 25 mpg.

Would it run better with a 4,000 in it?? More than likely yes. But that's not what this car is about for me.

**02 WS6 TA** · 12-31-2010, 04:12 PM

My .02 with Fuddles is 100% positive on product, a tad less than desireable on customer service- Which is IMO the primary reason many viable small businesses go under. They built an awesome product, and John's knowledgebase was superb. I'm on my 6th fuddle, and been nothing but satisfied- And I was a Yank customer before...Hint, hint.

**67CamaroRSSS** · 12-31-2010, 06:20 PM

Like FBJ stated I've had a Fuddle 3400 in my car (the 02) for some 6,xxx miles now with no problems (knock on wood and any other superstitious thing you can think of LOL). I've put maybe 60-70 passes on it (more?) with no problems. I also did beau coup tranny work and a cooler when I did the stall.

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 01-01-2011, 12:29 AM

I do plan on getting a cooler and maybe a flexplate with arp bolts.

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 01-01-2011, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Used converters I tend to shy away from. That's alot of work to install only to find out it has some sort of problem.

Up to you really, but to me it's not worth saving $4-500.

As far as the stall rating, it's really up to the individual as far as feel. You hear alot of stories of people buying one stall, and then wanting something even higher. With that thought process, keep in mind that Precision Industries offers one free re-stall after purchase. So if you don't like it, send it back for a re-stall.

I've had alot of cars with loose converters, so I have a good idea of what I like to tolerate.
For my 02, it's more of a driver, with plans to keep the 3.23's, and only a mild cam, I knew I didn't want to go hog wild on the converter.
The 3400 seems to fit that bill perfectly for me. A mild street car with good manors and a little bit of snap that still knocks down 25 mpg.

Would it run better with a 4,000 in it?? More than likely yes. But that's not what this car is about for me.

so in all though, a 3400 of anykind would be a decent tc with good street manners with sock power lvls? I do know that stall ratings are almost all approximate. Even the best ones can flash alittle higher than advertise, not by much.

**bills98ta** · 01-01-2011, 04:00 AM

I still run the stock flex plate with a 4600 tci... I believe the higher the HP, the higher the stall will flash ( + or - approx 5% )

**bills98ta** · 01-01-2011, 04:02 AM

On another note, I've never had a new TC yet... All of mine have been used bargains !!!

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 01-01-2011, 06:25 AM

So the stock flexplate will be fine under a 3400 TC? should i replace the TC bolts with ARP ones or is that alittle bit of overkill? Are sfi plates really needed or is it a when its needed?

**408WS6** · 01-01-2011, 06:45 AM

I did not have good luck at all with the Fuddle I had. That was 4 years ago, so maybe they improved, I don't know. And the customer service has horrendous. I would NOT recommend them at all. But like I say, maybe they have improved since then. Everyone deserves a second chance.

**bills98ta** · 01-01-2011, 07:08 AM

I would get the arp bolts.

**Firebirdjones** · 01-01-2011, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by JoshuaGrooms83

so in all though, a 3400 of anykind would be a decent tc with good street manners with sock power lvls? I do know that stall ratings are almost all approximate. Even the best ones can flash alittle higher than advertise, not by much.

Well, for me the 3400 is just fine for what I'm doing with the car. As long as the cam is mild (such as my case) a 3400 will do the job nicely.

The issue with everyones idea on an ultimate converter stall speed, is that it seems everyone is running a different brand as well.
Each manufacture has their own way of building converters. You can have 2 comparable stall ratings of say 3500 for instance,,,but built from 2 different manufactures.
They may in fact drive completely different even behind the exact same car. Some drive around town tighter than others and may not feel like a 3500, while others tend to drive around a little looser. Your rear gear will affect it as well. Less gear (say 3.23) will drive into the converter a little more to move the car around. While a car with say, 4.10's will actually feel as though the converter has tightened up a bit. Because it's easier to get the car moving and you aren't pushing the converter as hard. That's just one scenario, there are many, such as how heavy the car is for instance.
I will say these LS1's like rpm, and peak torque is a bit high in the neighborhood of close to 4,000 rpms, even in stock form. So they are a bit soft down low. It's why they respond so well to a stall in the 3500 range or even more.

I can tell you, my fuddle 3400 with a 2.1 STR drives around town a bit on the loose side compared to other converters I've had. But this car weighs 3,820 lbs with me in it, only has 3.23 gears, and is still a basically stock engine.
Doing things like lightening the car, installing more gear, or a bigger cam will tighten up the converter a tad. I had this converter specified for that gear and the cars weight however, and that isn't going to change. I will however install a mild cam at some point which was the idea all along.

That's comparing it to other converters I've used in the past such as B&M, TCI, Continental, and Coan. Coan being my all time favorite that I use in another car.

**5150** · 01-01-2011, 09:41 AM

I've been running the higher end 3600 fuddle for about 2-3 years now. Have had no problems. I have a full bolt on motor with 3.54 gears. Cruises around nice but turns into a beast when you smash the loud pedal.

**JoshuaGrooms83** · 01-04-2011, 11:05 AM

DAMN IT!!!! guy sold the 3400 to someone else.... oh well. back to the hunt

but to anwser my question a 32-3400 is a good range for a converter with stock gears (2.73) and stockish HP right?

ALthough the 3600 is for sale still im not sure if i want to go THAT highof a stall for a DD that like to see the Autobahn (aka 90mph is ok cause a BMW wagon is doing probably 130 passing you like your standing still)