OR/Y w/ stock manifolds, cat-back.

**DarrenWS6** · 06-28-2015, 12:55 PM

Plotting a lot of exhaust setups in my mind. 2000 WS6 M6. Looking for some guidance. I have the Flowmaster American Thunder ( 80 series ) in my car, bought it with it. Nice clean sound but I do like some heavy rumble. Here is a video of my car,

First question, I would love to change it for a GMMG system if I could find one, or for a Borla adjustable system. I like the tone of the two, with the GMMG being more preferred. ( Also understand GMMG is no-more since 2011, madhammar being a replica kit is available ). Opinions on the Madhammar replica kit? Anyone have it?

Second question, Is it worth anything to run an OR/Y with stock manifolds? I know I could expect a volume increase, but will it all go to hell with popping and losing its tone with this 80 series chambered muffler? I intend longtubes in the future, just want to know if I would need another Y pipe later on to connect to the collectors and if it would be a money waste right now to run a catless Y pipe just for more rumble. CEL isn't a concern and I know how to handle that. I don't have any immediate engine mods planned, cam/heads etc.. Just a stock block with exhaust bolt-ons. Opinions on this?

Third question, along with mentioning longtubes, I understand a catted Y will cut down on rasp. How much volume output would this cut down compared to a catless one? I have rode in Pajeff's WS6 with Kooks LTs w/ catted Y, and Magnaflow cat-back. Very tolerable car inside, I could handle some more rumble. I understand the Magnaflow kit is nice and tamed to begin with.

As far as discovering the sound I want, I am aware of and have searched LS1sounds ( even back in the day, 2006 and such! ), and have YouTube'd plenty of videos. Through internet and speakers, I prefer the tone of Longtubes, OR/Y, and GMMG cat-back. Just like this.

A drive-by of the same car. To me that sounds absolutely superb! I like the trumpet rasp sound when the throttle is let off and the aggression it gives off climbing through the gears.

This one also sounds great to me, and it is catted.

If I can't nab up a used GMMG kit, would the Borla adjustable kit be my ticket? ( pending responses of the madhammar replica kit ) I don't quite fancy the sound of SLP at all. Considered getting a loudmouth kit for the pipes, and getting a Borla round XR-1 to run inplace of the LM muffler.

Thanks for any advice/guidance!

Another note, if you have a GMMG kit and are going to change, it, sell it to me! Or if you are semi-local I would love to come have a listen to it.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-28-2015, 03:03 PM

As you found out the GMMG hasn't been produced in a few years.

Sounds are all subjective. I've run no cats before with stock manifolds and the stock Dual/Dual SLP CME exhaust. It really didn't make any noticable difference in sound to me, even with the top down. It did absolutely nothing for performance at the track either. But, that's a bone stock engine example. Something heavily modded would likely see a difference. Later switched to long tube headers and off road Y and the car only picked up a tenth. Again, a modded engine would take better advantage.

Yes to your other question, if you run an off road Y now with your stock manifolds, it will have to be changed again when you make the switch to long tube headers. My advice would be to save your money and hold off on the off road Y until you're ready to switch to your long tube headers.

**pajeff02** · 06-28-2015, 04:18 PM

Subscribed.

**sjgreen6** · 06-28-2015, 05:37 PM

I noticed a while back that Hawks Third Generation is showing a new old stock GMMG kit. They are still showing it available but pricy GMMG, Camaro/Firebird 82-2002 GMMG Chambered Exhaust System - Hawks Third Generation at $750 but if you got to have it, you got to have it.

**DarrenWS6** · 06-29-2015, 08:20 AM

I crawled under and looked at the underbody yesterday. I thought there was a huge bar near the Y pipe, turns out it was the Y pipe. Good lord do they crush the hell out of that Y pipe to make clearance!

Also after looking it over I feel foolish for asking about a aftermarket Y pipe since 5he Y pipe does not have cats, the downpipe do. Though I'm sure they include the downpipe.

Originally Posted by sjgreen6

I noticed a while back that Hawks Third Generation is showing a new old stock GMMG kit. They are still showing it available but pricy GMMG, Camaro/Firebird 82-2002 GMMG Chambered Exhaust System - Hawks Third Generation at $750 but if you got to have it, you got to have it.

I have seen that before, I think ws6 store has them too, but not going to hold my breath on it. They could be Mad Hammar kits. Once the money is there I'll be giving them a phone call.

**pajeff02** · 06-29-2015, 05:29 PM

You'll still need an aftermarket Y with the headers though and yes, they do crush the hell out of it from the factory.

**Firebirdjones** · 06-30-2015, 06:50 PM

$750 doesn't sound bad for an NOS exhaust that isn't made anymore. Hell I paid that much for my brand new Mufflex and you can still buy those all day long. Plenty of other systems out there that cost $1,000 to $1,500 too.

**DarrenWS6** · 07-01-2015, 02:18 AM

I'll try one of these sellers sometime and see if they have a true GMMG kit. $800+ is a lot for exhaust but not when you are getting good stainless steel that will last.

Originally Posted by pajeff02

You'll still need an aftermarket Y with the headers though and yes, they do crush the hell out of it from the factory.

Yeah I figured, especially seeing how crushed the factory one gets. I'll just save up for headers and Y at once. That will be as far as I will want to go bolt-on wise for awhile anyway, don't want to add big power to a stock 10 bolt!

**Firebirdjones** · 07-01-2015, 04:41 AM

Consider what you're getting, it's an obsolete part. Price isn't so bad. I pay 3-4 times that for 40+ year old NOS parts to restore these classic cars. Wait 40 years and see what they cost, if you can find one. If you want one now, I'd snag it while you still can.

Pypes sells pretty nice stainless systems for very reasonable and has become my favorite "go to" setup for the classic cars. For ~$500-$600 a real dual system in stainless is a bargain. Most of your aluminized systems on the market cost that much.

My all time favorite system for the 4th gens is also obsolete and not made anymore, the optional SLP Dual/Dual that was available only on the SS camaro and Firehawks. Was available over the counter for a while but was discontinued years ago. I've seen a couple of NOS setups pop up forsale in the same price range as you are seeing on the GMMG NOS setups. My wifes 4th gen camaro as well as my camaro have the Dual/Dual option. I kept hers when I installed the Mufflex setup and will most likely put the Dual/Dual back on her car in the near future.

**DarrenWS6** · 07-03-2015, 06:26 PM

I have a lead for a used GMMG kit for $400 picked up in Hershey PA tomorrow, July 4th. $450 if I can't nab it up. The only problem is the I-pipe has been cut right before the merge on the muffler section. Seems like a simple fix but none the less it is a repair requiring a weld. Plus there isn't tips, but I want to add on Corsa clone tips anyway. Opinions? Snag it or pass it.

Madhammer kit is $625 system only, if Hawk's has a GMMG kit it is $750 plus shipping if they even have one. Factoring these facts in, on either setup I would still add the $150 clone tips on them, but the used kit needing weld work will probably run about $100 at a shop. A hundred bucks more for a new Madhammer sounds a bit nicer but I just don't have that guarantee that it is truly like the real GMMG kits. Stuggle struggle!

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Consider what you're getting, it's an obsolete part. Price isn't so bad. I pay 3-4 times that for 40+ year old NOS parts to restore these classic cars. Wait 40 years and see what they cost, if you can find one. If you want one now, I'd snag it while you still can.

Pypes sells pretty nice stainless systems for very reasonable and has become my favorite "go to" setup for the classic cars. For ~$500-$600 a real dual system in stainless is a bargain. Most of your aluminized systems on the market cost that much.

My all time favorite system for the 4th gens is also obsolete and not made anymore, the optional SLP Dual/Dual that was available only on the SS camaro and Firehawks. Was available over the counter for a while but was discontinued years ago. I've seen a couple of NOS setups pop up forsale in the same price range as you are seeing on the GMMG NOS setups. My wifes 4th gen camaro as well as my camaro have the Dual/Dual option. I kept hers when I installed the Mufflex setup and will most likely put the Dual/Dual back on her car in the near future.

Thanks for the post and advice. Good points made, appreciate it!

**pajeff02** · 07-04-2015, 04:27 AM

On the stock system, you have to cut the I-pipe to remove everything from the car. Unfortunately, that is how they chose to remove this system as well. If there is enough "flat" on each side you can use a quality band clamp to install the system on your car. If not, depending upon clearances we may be able to weld it. My brother is a certified welder and lays down immaculate beads - I am certain he would assist us if it needs welded. I can stick metal together with my MIG, but have nowhere near his skill.

On a side note, if you trip to Hershey, we are at the Beaver house this weekend. You guys are more than welcome to swing by to check things out. We're 20 miles west of Selinsgrove on Route 522. It's raining now, so not sure if anything will be running at the track later today or not.

**DarrenWS6** · 07-04-2015, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

On the stock system, you have to cut the I-pipe to remove everything from the car. Unfortunately, that is how they chose to remove this system as well. If there is enough "flat" on each side you can use a quality band clamp to install the system on your car. If not, depending upon clearances we may be able to weld it. My brother is a certified welder and lays down immaculate beads - I am certain he would assist us if it needs welded. I can stick metal together with my MIG, but have nowhere near his skill.

On a side note, if you trip to Hershey, we are at the Beaver house this weekend. You guys are more than welcome to swing by to check things out. We're 20 miles west of Selinsgrove on Route 522. It's raining now, so not sure if anything will be running at the track later today or not.

Sounds like a good idea. I passed on it today though, so he'll want $450 for it unless he uses it for himself. In which case I won't be heart broken. It looks a bit dirty and used, a new madhammer shipped without tips is $625, not horribly off on price. Might end up doing that in the long run unless I can find another used kit unmodified/cut for similar. There is a Borla kit for sale for $400, but I am really feeling for the GMMG sound. The best part is I have a bud out in Ohio who will buy my current kit for cheap, hundred bucks or so, to slightly offset the cost.

I'm also feeling my truck to be paid off within the month, so the WS6 isn't going to know what hit it with some performance enhancements in no time!