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what to do about MAF?

This is a discussion on what to do about MAF? within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I have the NW 90mm TB, FAST 90mm intake, Whisper MS Lid, K&N filter, and descreened stock 75mm MAF and ...

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    Junior Member dougcw's Avatar
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    what to do about MAF?

    I have the NW 90mm TB, FAST 90mm intake, Whisper MS Lid, K&N filter, and descreened stock 75mm MAF and want to open up the air tract even more. I have heard nothing good about Granatelli MS and hardly anything about SLP's 85mm MAF. I feel that the 75mm is limiting my intake flow. Am I right? I have plans to install ATI D-1SC 8psi programmer setup, along with some heads that flow around 300-320 cfm. Can you help me out?
    Mods: FAST 90mm, Nick Williams 90mm TB, TR 230/224 .581/.567 111 LSA, CC 921 springs, Hooker LTs, Hooker ORY, SLP Loudmouth, Eibach Pro Kit, Billstein HD, Baer Eradispeed, Whisper Lid, BMR SFCs, BMR Adj. LCAs, BMR reloc. brackets, HPTuners. 418HP/390ft-lbs rearwheel on a DynoJet.

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Stock MAF is good to 500+ RWHP.

    The SLP piece is actually just a Delphi piece. I run that, but you require some computer adjusting for it.
    2008 Trailblazer SS
    Yank PTB3600, Kooks 1 7/8" LT's, 4" intake, E-fans, Magnaflow, Sonnax kit, tranny cooler, tune.
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    Senior Member ninobrn99's Avatar
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    With a blower, Id look at doing a 2bar SD tune, replacing the maf with a pipe or any other sort of coupling. You could also just upgrade to a z06 maf and increase your airflow that way.

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    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninobrn99 View Post
    With a blower, Id look at doing a 2bar SD tune, replacing the maf with a pipe or any other sort of coupling. You could also just upgrade to a z06 maf and increase your airflow that way.
    Inrease the airflow???? We're talking about forced air here.....he's not going to see much of a difference by putting a pipe there or coupling....you have to tune for the MAF. If he's running 8psi that's about .5bar not 2. That means he's running 1.5 times the atmospheric pressure on the engine. He would have to retune the DTC tables to allow this. The MAF is just measuring the air across it.......you can put a bigger one on there but you're just wasting your money....now if you were running more boost....then we'd talk......

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    Senior Member ninobrn99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cailey37 View Post
    Inrease the airflow???? We're talking about forced air here.....he's not going to see much of a difference by putting a pipe there or coupling....you have to tune for the MAF. If he's running 8psi that's about .5bar not 2. That means he's running 1.5 times the atmospheric pressure on the engine. He would have to retune the DTC tables to allow this. The MAF is just measuring the air across it.......you can put a bigger one on there but you're just wasting your money....now if you were running more boost....then we'd talk......
    If he has the stock 75mm maf with boost, but also has the 90/90 setup, then he has a bottle neck. If he removes the bottle neck by replacing it with a straight through pipe the same diameter as the TB and intake, then he doesnt have the maf as a restriction anymore. What do you mean he would have to retune the DTC table to allow it? If tuning for boost, then a 2bar setup would allow more resoultion for the ve to tune accordingly. He can run on the stock maf and map sensor, but his tune wouldnt be as precise as with the 2 bar. No more guess work. I havent tuned a FI car, so I cant say that is 100% correct. Also, going to a bigger maf is not a waste of money as it will allow for a higher maf frequency if you max out the 75mm.

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninobrn99 View Post
    With a blower, Id look at doing a 2bar SD tune, replacing the maf with a pipe or any other sort of coupling. You could also just upgrade to a z06 maf and increase your airflow that way.
    WERD^^^
    I did the truck/Z06 MAF...finally just gave up and we are going SD...the frequency of the MAF just will not realize the higher flow numbers on the motor we got in there....no amount of tuning will ever make the MAF recognize the higher flow....and with HP's newest software version released...SD is more attractive for sure....

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    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninobrn99 View Post
    If he has the stock 75mm maf with boost, but also has the 90/90 setup, then he has a bottle neck. If he removes the bottle neck by replacing it with a straight through pipe the same diameter as the TB and intake, then he doesnt have the maf as a restriction anymore. What do you mean he would have to retune the DTC table to allow it? If tuning for boost, then a 2bar setup would allow more resoultion for the ve to tune accordingly. He can run on the stock maf and map sensor, but his tune wouldnt be as precise as with the 2 bar. No more guess work. I havent tuned a FI car, so I cant say that is 100% correct. Also, going to a bigger maf is not a waste of money as it will allow for a higher maf frequency if you max out the 75mm.
    At the psi he's running he wont max out the 75mm maf. You've got to remember...the MAF is there for a reason. Sure you can run the car off a MAP sensor but you'd better make sure you have a good tune. You've got to remember one thing when it comes to forced induction.....when you're getting 8lbs of boost...you're getting 8lbs of boost.....the 75mm maf isn't going to cause that much of a restriction. Believe me....unless you start getting over 500-600 hp you're wasting your money on a bigger maf......what I mean by he'd have to retune the DTC tables is since you're putting more air thru the MAF you've got to go in and add about 150% to the air flow table to compensate for this. That way you wont get a code thrown or worse the car starts to run lean.......most people just bypass the MAF because they dont want to or know how to tune for it when they go forced induction.......

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    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    WERD^^^
    I did the truck/Z06 MAF...finally just gave up and we are going SD...the frequency of the MAF just will not realize the higher flow numbers on the motor we got in there....no amount of tuning will ever make the MAF recognize the higher flow....and with HP's newest software version released...SD is more attractive for sure....
    I assure you it can be done.......

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    Senior Member ninobrn99's Avatar
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    ok, i see what you're saying. Again, this is one of those 'its all in the tune' deals.

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    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninobrn99 View Post
    ok, i see what you're saying. Again, this is one of those 'its all in the tune' deals.
    I've just seen too many people take the "easy" way out on this....I've tuned plenty of cars with the MAF along with forced induction and make it work all day long. I've talked to the guy that wrote LS1 edit, Ken Kelly, in depth about this and he says the same thing I do about the use of a MAF......I just had a guy here in town that was trying to tune his car with the MAF and didn't listen to me about changing the air tables and he's now replacing the entire engine after it went lean and blew sky high......

    But you're right.....it's all about the tune......I am no expert but I've been around the block a few times with it.....I just finished my car a few weeks ago and got 720rwhp and 786rwtq on pump gas and I did it without really pushing the motor.......I had 5 gallons of race gas ready to put in and push it a little bit with the timing but I figured why when it was running that good.....after I put the engine girdle in I may crank it over 800...........

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    We'll be back... GatorSS's Avatar
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    The new HPT software definitely makes SD more attractive than before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cailey37 View Post
    I've just seen too many people take the "easy" way out on this....I've tuned plenty of cars with the MAF along with forced induction and make it work all day long. I've talked to the guy that wrote LS1 edit, Ken Kelly, in depth about this and he says the same thing I do about the use of a MAF......I just had a guy here in town that was trying to tune his car with the MAF and didn't listen to me about changing the air tables and he's now replacing the entire engine after it went lean and blew sky high......

    But you're right.....it's all about the tune......I am no expert but I've been around the block a few times with it.....I just finished my car a few weeks ago and got 720rwhp and 786rwtq on pump gas and I did it without really pushing the motor.......I had 5 gallons of race gas ready to put in and push it a little bit with the timing but I figured why when it was running that good.....after I put the engine girdle in I may crank it over 800...........
    I agree it is all in the tune...you can cheat the tables so to speak and spend tons of time....but I have to ask why? So you can have a MAF? Screw that....I just went SD ...simple...easy...accurate...no hassles and runs like a stripped ape....and yes I run a AEM A/F meter stuck right in the middle of the dash....we went back and forth..played with or without the MAF....now Allen is putting the final SD tune on the black bitch and we are done....just cannot keep screwing with the MAF tune when the SD is so simple and easy....

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    So you can have a MAF?
    I don't really have a choice.
    I have to run a MAF tune right now.
    With as often as I change altitudes, I want it metering my air.
    A trip into the mountains can take me to 10,000+ feet, a trip 50 miles east can take me to 3500 feet.

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    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    I don't really have a choice.
    I have to run a MAF tune right now.
    With as often as I change altitudes, I want it metering my air.
    A trip into the mountains can take me to 10,000+ feet, a trip 50 miles east can take me to 3500 feet.
    I was just getting ready to say the same thing.....sure you can cheat the tables but you'd better hope you're running the car in the same area.....go somewhere else...higher/lower elevation....more humidity.....see how the car runs.......That's why I say take the time and do it right the first time and you wont have to worry about it......most people just get frustrated and think it's too easy to not tune that way and do it.........but hey...I'll give it my old..."it's your car, do what you want with it." But if you ask me what's better.....running the car with the MAF hooked up is better...

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Yup if there is extremes in atmospheric pressure changes etc. you depend on the MAF to automatically adjust the tables...I agree...
    This is my signature. It is mine. Nobody else has one like it.

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    September 1st I am looking to take it down to 600 feet.
    Should feel a little better down there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    September 1st I am looking to take it down to 600 feet.
    Should feel a little better down there.
    Come on down here with us "Coastal Dwellers"..of course it is 1000 degrees and 100% humidity.....but we are flat as the Olsen twins
    Quote Originally Posted by SSGator
    The new HPT software definitely makes SD more attractive than before.
    Amen to that !

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    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    I was born in Iowa, and my grandfather is getting to that point that it could be any time.
    So...take a dual purpose trip early September.

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    Senior Member ninobrn99's Avatar
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    well with the new release of hpt .12 its so easy to tune! I cant wait to get back to the states and tune my new motor real time tuning!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninobrn99 View Post
    well with the new release of hpt .12 its so easy to tune! I cant wait to get back to the states and tune my new motor real time tuning!
    No shit brother...HP is making it damn hard to keep a MAF....even GM engineers are on the internet talking about how inefficient they are....I know I know...I love MAF's I Love MAF's......
    Fuck it..I'm gonna haul ass....gimme SD!

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