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Water Pumps

This is a discussion on Water Pumps within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; ^^^ i thought stock was 184?...

  1. #41
    Member TA98's Avatar
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    ^^^ i thought stock was 184?

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    stock LS1 f bod is 187

  3. #43
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    i was close. i knew it was an odd number

  4. #44
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Unless you find it stamped on there, don't trust what you read. They don't start to open till roughly 192 degrees. You can stick them in water with a probe or watch the scanner on the laptop to verify it,,,very easy to see. They are hot thermostats from the factory.

    Even the advertised 160's that you buy don't start opening until about 172-173 degrees, and aren't fully open until 175-176 degrees, which causes the engine to run about 180 to 185 anyway. So they aren't true 160's either.

    And for that reason is why I have a beef with these LS1 stats and their stupid design. It doesn't allow the stat to open any sooner than 172 degrees.
    That's why I've been interested in a water pump that uses a seperate old style thermostat that actually works at the temps they advertise.

  5. #45
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    do you think its possibe to just pull the thermostat out of the factory housing so your left with just the housing then install a standard style housing, o-ring, then the housing?

  6. #46
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T/A98 View Post
    do you think its possibe to just pull the thermostat out of the factory housing so your left with just the housing then install a standard style housing, o-ring, then the housing?
    Well that would be nice, but it's not really designed that way.

    It's been a few years since I've done this so I'm going off memory. But these LS1 thermostats can be modified to open earlier. You have to pull the stat out of the housing, which is a chore in itself. There are metal tabs that have to be bent out of the way. You can then install a smaller spacer (1/8 copper ferrel works great) to open the stats earlier.
    It all has to be reassembled and the tabs bent back into place. This only opens the stats at about 172 degrees, and if you space them further, then they don't completely close all the way, which can cause other problems.

    This method I just described is basically exactly what you get from SLP and other places when you buy a 160 thermostat, it's just a modified LS1 stat. For some reason they advertise them at 160,,,but they are in fact not 160 stats.
    It's very easy to see what I'm referring to if you have a scan tool.

    That's why that picture that Sommer posted really has me puzzled. His thermostat is seperate from the housing, and it looks just like the LS1 stats that are supposed to be perminantly fixed to the housings.
    His picture is exactly how they look if you were to pry one out of a housing is what I'm trying to say.

    The LS2 stat I got from Summit was more of a conventional stat like you would see in any other older engine. Much cheaper to buy that way too. Without a recess groove in the pump, or some form of a gasket, I'm just not sure how you would make it work.

    But obviously at some point GM started making them that way because those stats are sold as LS2 stats. I have just never found the exact application. I would love to install one of those style water pumps on my LS1's (what ever it is) and go back to a more conventional style thermostat.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 03-24-2011 at 09:43 AM.

  7. #47
    Join the PHK @ thephk.org Sommer86@6LE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsingle1 View Post
    sommers........what temp of stat is that ??
    I believe it's "stock". It's whatever comes with a new WP. It came as a set, I didn't get to choose the temp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Since it looks like the same thing I bought from GM, then it would be the stock 195, that's what mine came with.
    I am pretty sure it's the only temp GM will supply with their water pump kits. If you want cooler you'll have to go aftermarket.
    Yeah, I'm going aftermarket with a "160". It's what I've got now (on the LS1), except I've got the same style as you do now, one piece, on my LS1.

  8. #48
    Join the PHK @ thephk.org Sommer86@6LE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Well that would be nice, but it's not really designed that way.

    It's been a few years since I've done this so I'm going off memory. But these LS1 thermostats can be modified to open earlier. You have to pull the stat out of the housing, which is a chore in itself. There are metal tabs that have to be bent out of the way. You can then install a smaller spacer (1/8 copper ferrel works great) to open the stats earlier.
    It all has to be reassembled and the tabs bent back into place. This only opens the stats at about 172 degrees, and if you space them further, then they don't completely close all the way, which can cause other problems.

    This method I just described is basically exactly what you get from SLP and other places when you buy a 160 thermostat, it's just a modified LS1 stat. For some reason they advertise them at 160,,,but they are in fact not 160 stats.
    It's very easy to see what I'm referring to if you have a scan tool.

    That's why that picture that Sommer posted really has me puzzled. His thermostat is seperate from the housing, and it looks just like the LS1 stats that are supposed to be perminantly fixed to the housings.
    His picture is exactly how they look if you were to pry one out of a housing is what I'm trying to say.

    The LS2 stat I got from Summit was more of a conventional stat like you would see in any other older engine. Much cheaper to buy that way too. Without a recess groove in the pump, or some form of a gasket, I'm just not sure how you would make it work.

    But obviously at some point GM started making them that way because those stats are sold as LS2 stats. I have just never found the exact application. I would love to install one of those style water pumps on my LS1's (what ever it is) and go back to a more conventional style thermostat.
    Interesting points... As soon as I got my stat cover back from powder, i'll snap some pics of the underside.

    As for looking for the style I got, just check out that link i posted last page. It's the link and it's got like 12 days left on the auction. It's Just under $190, and sure looks pretty.

    I'm gonna go look for a 160* stat tomorrow at autozone. The stat I got from SLP for my old WP (the style you have) was $60 from SLP, but the same exact stat (even down to the same manufacturer) was at autozone for $20, lol. FML...... Thanks, SLP.

  9. #49
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    Let us know what you find at the local auto stores. I didn't have any luck there. None of them carried a cooler stat for the LS1, and they weren't $20 either. It was all one piece with the housing, as all LS1's are, and that extra hunk of aluminum jacks the price up.

    For what it's worth you can buy the cooler stats made buy Hypertech for the LS1 (housing and stat as one piece) for the LS1 on Amazon.com for $48. That's the cheapest I've seen this style sold for.

    I so desperately want to convert to a conventional stat but I just can't find anymore info on that LS2 stat I got from Summit. Not only would it be so much cheaper and easier to do routine flushes and stat changes ($10),,,,but you would also get a stat that actually works at 160 degrees because it's not limited by design.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 03-25-2011 at 08:08 AM.

  10. #50
    Junior Member mrc54's Avatar
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    Interesting thread, I think the AC part number is 252-846? and this is a direct replacement for our LS-1? The water pump looks just like the Edlebrock and is half the price, plus the cheap thermostats. I have a coolant leak, and if it is the pump, this looks like the one I'll buy.

  11. #51
    Join the PHK @ thephk.org Sommer86@6LE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Let us know what you find at the local auto stores. I didn't have any luck there. None of them carried a cooler stat for the LS1, and they weren't $20 either. It was all one piece with the housing, as all LS1's are, and that extra hunk of aluminum jacks the price up.

    For what it's worth you can buy the cooler stats made buy Hypertech for the LS1 (housing and stat as one piece) for the LS1 on Amazon.com for $48. That's the cheapest I've seen this style sold for.
    Haven't checked yet, but i'll let you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrc54 View Post
    Interesting thread, I think the AC part number is 252-846? and this is a direct replacement for our LS-1? The water pump looks just like the Edlebrock and is half the price, plus the cheap thermostats. I have a coolant leak, and if it is the pump, this looks like the one I'll buy.
    I think the difference is that the Edelbrock is a "highflow" WP. The LS2 I have is just "stock" flow. The Edelbrock is also WWWAAAYYY more, like you said. F that!

  12. #52
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Just wanted to visit this again and update something.

    I finally got my Hypertech 160 stat in the mail that I had ordered for my 04 6.0 truck engine I'm swapping. It's actually made by motorad. Anyway,,,,it doesn't fit my stock 6.0 GM water pump.

    The ears that actually hold the stat in the housing are much wider than the stock stat,,,and it won't pass through the water pump opening. So it's going back.

    Funny thing though, they list this stat as being correct for all LS1 and LS2 applications, including my 2004 6.0 engine. WRONG!!! Just a heads up.
    It's hypertech part #1014

  13. #53
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    the pump is the LS2?

  14. #54
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    Yes it still has the original GM pump on it. The sites I've checked list all the LS1 and LS2 including the 6.0 vortec truck engines as using the same thermostat #1014. But there is no way it's fitting inside the hole in the pump.

  15. #55
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I'm looking around and just checked Thunder Racings site. They actually had some pics.
    Looking under trucks, it appears the stats that are built into the housings stop being listed at 2003,,,,and from 04 on up they show just a stat without a housing for $30.
    That's not how my 04 6.0 is. It has the stat built into the thermostat housing. And that Hypertech part number they list doesn't fit.
    I sent them an email asking what's up. We'll see what they say.

    I hate this stupid thermostat design,,,thanks GM. I'm about ready to chuck this water pump in the mill and machine a groove for a good ole Gen 1 thermostat and just gut the factory housing and bolt it on with some silicone.

  16. #56
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Here are some pics to better explain.....

    Here is the original stat, you can see how wide the ears are...



    Here is a pic of the hypertech 1014. See how much wider the ears are??



    And here is a pic of that hypertech, and you can clearly see it's not going into the factory water pump.


  17. #57
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    not to be a buzz kill but damn ur nails are nicely trimed and cleen... did u just get back from getting them done?

  18. #58
    Join the PHK @ thephk.org Sommer86@6LE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Here are some pics to better explain.....

    Here is the original stat, you can see how wide the ears are...

    Click for full size

    Here is a pic of the hypertech 1014. See how much wider the ears are??

    Click for full size

    And here is a pic of that hypertech, and you can clearly see it's not going into the factory water pump.

    Click for full size
    So weird!! A couple of years ago, on my LS1 engine (in the car currently) I wanted to install a 160* stat. Back when I though SLP was god, I ordered the 160 stat from them. I had the stat laying around until I could reprogram my fans to kick on with the hew stat. When I was ready, I went to autozone to get some Dex-cool for the swap i wondered if they sold stats like mine (built into the thermo's neck) and they sure did! He showed it to me. It was a hypertech, which was the EXACT same piece SLP sold me, but it was about $30 cheaper....just not sure if it was a 160* or not.

    Anyway, I went back to my house and installed the SLP stat. The whole thing went in without a hitch. Everything fit.

    Sorry for your misfortunes....and I hope I dont have any issues when I go to get a 160* for the new LS2 style pump i got.

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  19. #59
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    no way that thermo is fitting in there.........even if you modded it........+2 on the nails

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sommer86@6LE View Post
    So weird!! A couple of years ago, on my LS1 engine (in the car currently) I wanted to install a 160* stat. Back when I though SLP was god, I ordered the 160 stat from them. I had the stat laying around until I could reprogram my fans to kick on with the hew stat. When I was ready, I went to autozone to get some Dex-cool for the swap i wondered if they sold stats like mine (built into the thermo's neck) and they sure did! He showed it to me. It was a hypertech, which was the EXACT same piece SLP sold me, but it was about $30 cheaper....just not sure if it was a 160* or not.

    Anyway, I went back to my house and installed the SLP stat. The whole thing went in without a hitch. Everything fit.

    Sorry for your misfortunes....and I hope I dont have any issues when I go to get a 160* for the new LS2 style pump i got.
    Well I sent this one back this morning. Ran all over town this afternoon at various parts stores looking at new stats. They all carried the correct stat I needed,,,,,but everyone had 195's Not one store could even order a 160...Lame. So now that I know what it is I'm after,,,I'm just going to order a 160 online and play the waiting game again.

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