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Throttle body improvements & misc.

This is a discussion on Throttle body improvements & misc. within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Looking to gather some more stuff over winter hopefully. '00 WS6 m6, not daily driven, 102k mi, all stock aside ...

  1. #1
    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    Throttle body improvements & misc.

    Looking to gather some more stuff over winter hopefully.

    '00 WS6 m6, not daily driven, 102k mi, all stock aside of GMMG catback, suspension, and SLP lid/smooth bellow.

    So i'm hoping that over winter this will be what I get done with my car. I have used GTP longtubes on stand by, and a new TSP 3" OR/Y that was free with them ( currently trying to score a used Kooks 3" OR/Y for a good deal on Facebook, and gonna sell the TSP. Read that Kooks fits QTP better & QTP are a replica of Kooks ). Once that all goes in, I have the good copper plugs, MSD wires, an LS6 intake w/ new seals, and prothane engine mounts ready for install.

    While torn apart, i'm looking for what is worth replacing or what is necessary along with this project. Was thinking about trying to have the stock 78mm throttle body port and polished to 85mm. Not looking to buy a replacement 90mm or anything like that, figuring in on the LS6 intake and not buying a pricey Fast Perf one. Not considering trying to P&P it myself either. But unaware of the cost of P&P, is it worth it do P&P a stock TB? Or is there an aftermarket one worth buying for a few bucks more? I have heard of 5 rwhp gains on a stock P&P, but an aftermarket P&P throttle body seems to be around $150. Looks like the avg cost is around $70 for P&P.

    Also was planning to swap the LS1 fuel rails/injectors over to the LS6. Should I order larger injectors? I would be looking to do a mail-order tune after it all as heads/cam would be a distant future goal ( like after a rear end and transmission upgrade goal ) but if injectors should be upgraded here, would certainly like do it correct the first time until future head/cam work.

    And lastly, my research has concluded that oil pump and timing chain can be left alone until attention is either needed, or until the car is cammed. That good? And I believe I would want to do a P&P LS6 oil pump & LS6 timing chain. That the right way to go?

    I'm looking up MAF stuff currently, some folks de-screen them. Mentally I don't like the idea of that. Would that be ok to do to my non daily driven car? I still enjoy the car on the road in the summer months but I can't imagine anything thick would get past the air filter.

    Tried some research before asking, but always like reassurance, suggestions, and the changing times & new parts out there is always worth an asking. Thanks!
    Last edited by DarrenWS6; 11-12-2017 at 02:37 PM.
    2000 Trans Am WS.6 M6

    SLP lid & bellow w/ K&N, GMMG catback w/ Corsa Clones, UMI SFC, UMI Adj. Panhard, UMI Adj. TQ arm w/ relocation kit, Eibach prokit, Bilstein HDs, Nitto NT555s, skip shift elim, whiteface overlays, 20% tint, matte black decal/overlays

  2. #2
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    While torn apart, i'm looking for what is worth replacing or what is necessary along with this project. Was thinking about trying to have the stock 78mm throttle body port and polished to 85mm. Not looking to buy a replacement 90mm or anything like that, figuring in on the LS6 intake and not buying a pricey Fast Perf one. Not considering trying to P&P it myself either. But unaware of the cost of P&P, is it worth it do P&P a stock TB? Or is there an aftermarket one worth buying for a few bucks more? I have heard of 5 rwhp gains on a stock P&P, but an aftermarket P&P throttle body seems to be around $150. Looks like the avg cost is around $70 for P&P.
    There used to be a guy that did them S2 Performance, however his site is no longer active so I'm not sure if he's still around. I and I believe Orion too had one of his P&P TB's. You may try a local machine shop to see if they would do so. BBK used to sell a 85mm TB that had mixed reviews.

    Also was planning to swap the LS1 fuel rails/injectors over to the LS6. Should I order larger injectors?
    No need unless you went up to a stroker or better cam & heads.

    I would be looking to do a mail-order tune after it all as heads/cam would be a distant future goal
    For simple bolt on's Frost is the tune to get. For cam and Heads you'll need a full on tune session otherwise you risk damage to the engine.

    ( like after a rear end and transmission upgrade goal ) but if injectors should be upgraded here, would certainly like do it correct the first time until future head/cam work.
    The 10 bolt is to me the biggest crime against our cars from GM. Should have come with a 12 bolt. You have quite a few options when upgrading the rear. 9" would be for heavy track use, 12 bolt for good mix of both street/cruise/track. 8.8's are kinda in between the 9" and the 12 bolt. A few companies are making them now, I made mine before they started selling them. So far after 2+ yrs it's been holding strong and I've not been to easy on it either.

    And lastly, my research has concluded that oil pump and timing chain can be left alone until attention is either needed, or until the car is cammed. That good? And I believe I would want to do a P&P LS6 oil pump & LS6 timing chain. That the right way to go?
    Oil pump - LS6 or Melling 10295 pumps are good. If you go big on cam and heads or go with a bigger block then I suggest the Melling 10296 (HO/HV)
    LS2 timing chain and call it done. Double rollers are a PITA to install and I wouldn't go that route unless I was boosted or high Nitrous/C.I. build. Now there is a timing chain dampner from Trick flow that would be worth the $45 to install. Do all 3 at the same time if you decided to cam it.

    I'm looking up MAF stuff currently, some folks de-screen them. Mentally I don't like the idea of that. Would that be ok to do to my non daily driven car? I still enjoy the car on the road in the summer months but I can't imagine anything thick would get past the air filter.
    I strongly do not recommend doing. De-screening it doesn't add any real measurable HP gains. And IMHO only makes it easier to suck in trash.


    Anything else feel free to ask. It's what we're here for.
    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/my-6-liter-build-174257/

    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f8/my-8-8-rear-build-165553/

    6.0L Block - Forged 403 built, breaking it in , Polluter Stg3 Cam, FAST 102mm Intake, NW102 TB, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, Truck Coil Packs, LS3 Fuel Injectors, CC Pacesetter LT Headers, TS&P ORY, QTP e-Cutout, Magnaflow Muffler, 104mm Air Lid & Line Lock, Catch Can, Stage 2 T56 w/Viper shaft, PRO 5.0 Shifter, Tick MC, SPEC Stg3+ Clutch, QT SFI BH, MWC DSL, UMI: SFC, PHB, LCA's, LCA Relocation Brackets & TA, Hotchkis Springs (1" Drop), YR1 Snowflake Wheels wrapped in NT555 tires & Custom Fab Ford 8.8 rear w/4.10 Yukon Gears, WSQ Hood, 3"CM Strange Eng Drive Shaft.

    00 FB Vert

    Horsepower never lies, but is often lied about!

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    And on the 8th day, the Lord said, "Don't mess with the MAF!"
    SMWS6TA likes this.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Unless you go with a Speed Density Tune.


    I really need to think of a way of inserting a screen after the air filter.

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    Screen after the air filter... pourquoi?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    So much crap on the roads that I don't quite trust a paper filter. And with me having a SD tune I have no MAF.

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    Just took my lid off to install a smooth bellows, maf screen had trash all on it. My SLP lid did not have a weatherstripping seal on it maybe trash got in that way maybe not but it's fixed now. Don't mess with the screen it's unnecessary.

    Please keep us informed as to who you get the throttle body ported by, I'll be in line right behind you.
    87 GN 7.75 1/8th @ 90MPH-SOLD
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    To clarify my post, we don't recommend messing with the MAF (ie. de-screen, de-blade, or port) as it is a calibrated sensor. Anything done to the MAF in the name of increasing air flow is simply going to throw off its calibration and result in actual airflow being incorrectly reported to the PCM.

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    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    Sounds good guys, thank you for the lengthy responses SMWS6TA. Greatly appreciated.

    Currently just stored it in PaJeff's automotive storage lair this afternoon. Felt good to drive it since I believe it has been nearly a month. I forgot to record my mileage before pulling the battery but I believe I put no more than 3,000 miles on it this year. Perhaps soon I can get it on a cheaper insurance plan for restricted mileage if I can tame myself to not drive it a ton.

    Over thanksgiving a couple cool things happened. I decided I hated the style and merge of the TSP Y pipe, sold it for $100 on Facebook surprisingly fast. Called up Maryland Speed since they have the best advertised price on the Kooks OR/Y ( $316 shipped free ). That is the included the discount from Kooks ( 20% ) black Friday deal, and I got off more from Maryland Speed ( Black Friday discount ) so it was $280 out the door. Very pleased. It is the updated version with the improved merge design seen below.

    Original design
    6502S__6402S__40771.1371244521.1280.1280.jpg

    New design
    ls1_y-pipe_or_3.jpg

    Reviews claim a much better sound from the smooth equal merge, and sound matters a lot to me. The rasp is quite strong with poor merges.

    And the next part was on a facebook parts page a person was doing a part-out on a salvage car, I was able to get the power antenna assembly for $50 cash and it was 15 minutes away from my family down in the Langhorne PA area. Couldn't have worked out any better. I installed it today right before prepping it for storage. Its nice to have a functioning antenna again.

    Once the Y pipe comes in all I should need is a intermediate pipe which I will call up Madhammer/GMMG for, and the stage 8 studs. Otherwise I left most needed parts in the trunk of the car minus the headers. Looking forward to the wrenching!
    pajeff02 likes this.

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    Say the word. It'll be a solid weekend worth of thrashing.

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    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    Off topic somewhat. Looks like my Ford F-150 is jealous of the attention the Trans Am and Cobalt have been getting. Cobalt needs a CV axle, but my truck took it to a whole new level the other day...



    Trans Am parts held off yet again

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    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrenWS6 View Post
    Sounds good guys, thank you for the lengthy responses SMWS6TA. Greatly appreciated.

    Currently just stored it in PaJeff's automotive storage lair this afternoon. Felt good to drive it since I believe it has been nearly a month. I forgot to record my mileage before pulling the battery but I believe I put no more than 3,000 miles on it this year. Perhaps soon I can get it on a cheaper insurance plan for restricted mileage if I can tame myself to not drive it a ton.

    Over thanksgiving a couple cool things happened. I decided I hated the style and merge of the TSP Y pipe, sold it for $100 on Facebook surprisingly fast. Called up Maryland Speed since they have the best advertised price on the Kooks OR/Y ( $316 shipped free ). That is the included the discount from Kooks ( 20% ) black Friday deal, and I got off more from Maryland Speed ( Black Friday discount ) so it was $280 out the door. Very pleased. It is the updated version with the improved merge design seen below.

    Original design
    6502S__6402S__40771.1371244521.1280.1280.jpg

    New design
    ls1_y-pipe_or_3.jpg

    Reviews claim a much better sound from the smooth equal merge, and sound matters a lot to me. The rasp is quite strong with poor merges.

    And the next part was on a facebook parts page a person was doing a part-out on a salvage car, I was able to get the power antenna assembly for $50 cash and it was 15 minutes away from my family down in the Langhorne PA area. Couldn't have worked out any better. I installed it today right before prepping it for storage. Its nice to have a functioning antenna again.

    Once the Y pipe comes in all I should need is a intermediate pipe which I will call up Madhammer/GMMG for, and the stage 8 studs. Otherwise I left most needed parts in the trunk of the car minus the headers. Looking forward to the wrenching!
    Did Kooks make similar changes to its catted y’s? My y is two years old now. It looks like those bends up front might help out with some clearance issues, and I hate scraping a cat on the occasional speed bump.
    SLP Air Lid/Smooth Bellows
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    NGK TR55 plugs
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    Spohn Front Upper Tubular Control Arms
    UMI Front Lower Tubular Control Arms
    UMI Rear Lower Control Arms/ Adjustable Panhard Rod
    Factory C5 Z06 17x9.5 wheels w/ 285-40-17 Continental Extreme Contact DW's all the way around.
    Dyno Dynamics dynoed @:
    356 rwhp, 360 rwlb/tq

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrenWS6 View Post
    Off topic somewhat. Looks like my Ford F-150 is jealous of the attention the Trans Am and Cobalt have been getting. Cobalt needs a CV axle, but my truck took it to a whole new level the other day...



    Trans Am parts held off yet again

    That is one pissed off truck.

  14. #14
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrenWS6 View Post
    Off topic somewhat. Looks like my Ford F-150 is jealous of the attention the Trans Am and Cobalt have been getting. Cobalt needs a CV axle, but my truck took it to a whole new level the other day...



    Trans Am parts held off yet again

    Pull the codes yet?


    Another fine Ford product.
    pajeff02 likes this.

  15. #15
    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    It's been a great truck, and all of a sudden this. I don't have a code reader or means for code monitoring. So dealership it goes probably next week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whamhammer View Post
    Did Kooks make similar changes to its catted yís? My y is two years old now. It looks like those bends up front might help out with some clearance issues, and I hate scraping a cat on the occasional speed bump.
    The catted Y is available with the new merge. To be honest, i'm not sure if they even produce the previous style these days.

  16. #16
    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    I'm getting impatient with Maryland Speed... The order for the Y pipe has been processing since 11-20-17, and I ordered it 11-17-17. I sent an email 12-30-17 saying it had been 5 weeks and would like an update. I got a response 12-31-17 stating "We should have tracking next week sorry for the delay". Well, its 1-13-18 and still no Y pipe or even a tracking #. On Monday I will give it one last request and if nothing after a week or so, i'll put in a request to cancle my order, and do what I was going to do originally, see if Summit Racing will price match their shipped advertised price. Granted I will lose out on the black friday deal of $40 but this is just a tad ridiculous.

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    Plenty of people have had to wait much longer for a deal through them. Almost always on kooks products. Do a google search and you'll find them. I'm pretty sure from memory though that you can't just cancel your order without paying a pretty good canceling/restocking fee. So the $40 saved could lead to a $50 restocking fee and pay the full price somewhere else but actually get it. Good luck, I believe I remember reading someone waiting a year for their true dual kit.

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    Maryland buys in bulk from the dealer, that's how they get such good prices. Texas speed only gives them deals when they purchase let's say 20 from then. So if your number 1 in the order forfillment process then you wait the longest. If your #19 or 20 then you wait days. I've bought from them in the past and have felt your pain.

  19. #19
    Member DarrenWS6's Avatar
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    Good lord, well, son of a gun. Anyone want to buy some Kooks Y pipes from Maryland Speed?

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    4th gen y pipes are in real sort demand anymore. This could take a min.

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