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Problems w/coated Pacesetters...

This is a discussion on Problems w/coated Pacesetters... within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by 9t8z28 Good INFO!!!!!!! Thank goodness, FRAM is all that I use. Sprinkle some fairy dust on the ...

  1. #21
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    Good INFO!!!!!!! Thank goodness, FRAM is all that I use.
    Sprinkle some fairy dust on the above while your absorbing all this good info ....

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  3. #23
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Relax there Sarge. My explainations may not be text book technical. But I can only relay what I have found while cutting them apart.
    What got me started in cutting them apart was the simple fact that after the old oil was drained from the filter,,,it had a rattle in it. After cutting it apart I found the rattle to be the element itself moving around inside the case,,,not a good thing. Fram is the only filter I have found at this point that was manufactured in such a way that the filter element inside is unable to move. It's quite possible filter companies have changed there manufacture process in the last few years as I have stuck with Fram since I found this out some time ago. If thats the case than by all means I stand corrected.
    I can only relay my own experiences with filters and give people a heads up that there is more to filters than just their ability to filter down to a certain micron.
    All I can suggest is to start cutting filters apart as you use them and see what kind of a job they are doing. Larry.

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    I am the most relaxed person on the planet Larry. Lets review the basics of an oil filter. All filters consist of five basic parts ( yes there are more but all filter share these five basic parts)
    The can....burst ratings come into play here.
    The media...paper/synthetic fiber even toilet paper are used in todays medias.
    The Tube....the center tube is what really holds the media against the side of the can.
    ADBV..Anti Drain Back Valve....most come with activation around 8-15lbs.
    The base gasket. This is the gasket that seal between the filter and the engine.
    Now there are some other parts obviously. But nowhere is there an O-Ring that holds the media together. I have no idea what you (first) observed from your disections or (secondly) heard rattling. I would guess you may have shook your filter and heard the ADBV play....but that is a guess on my part....I can tell you Fram filters no better than a ST filter and has terrible flow...is poorly constructed ( see glue/plastic/cardboard) and it is well documented. To say you observed some O-Ring failure on AC Delcos/WIX etc but never on a Fram is a mystery to now quite a few folks. Where was this O-Ring? The media is held in place by the center tube. On all filters made. Everyone of them. The oil flows in through the outer smaller holes...runs through the media and out and up through the big hole in the center.....I am lost as to what you observed or heard but can assure you of two facts and not perceptions.
    1. There is no O-Ring that holds the media in the can.
    2. Fram is poorly constructed with cheap materials and is overpriced for what it is.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I don't have one currently apart, but I guess I need to cut one and take some pics or what?

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    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    For all of you that don't have this issue:
    Do you all think that there is an issue of how close the header is to the filter in terms of the heat that gets put apon it?

    O.K., back to my original question!

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    Yeah, I absolutely think you have an issue. A significant one that would have me worried about what that super heated oil has already done to my engine. Petroleum based lubricants release or create varnish at some temperature. I know that ATF makes varnish at about 260 degrees. As for motor oil, I don't know but like Sarge said ....

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I don't have one currently apart, but I guess I need to cut one and take some pics or what?
    Oh hell no. We got lots and lots of pics of every kind of oil filter cut apart there ever was made. I think we have a consensus on the forum I frequent that is oil filter/oil specific....all of them are gearheads and engineers so everything gets picked apart fairly quick on that forum....We all believe you heard (maybe) the metal end caps in the more superior filters and of course the el cheapo Fram has glued on cardboard end caps....best any of us could come up with...here I'll cut and paste a couple responses from the other site...
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Please describe a "steel bevel"????

    I ain't seen a Fram with a "steel bevel" yet, or is he talking about the leaf spring? The ADV? The element support between the plate and the element? The upfront relief valve?

    Me thinks, he knows not what he talks about.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    He either has a strange application, or is desperately confused. Every Fram filter I've taken apart has a rubber ADBV that holds the element in place, no other filter uses such a technique. The only metal in a Fram is the center tube, which is itself held in place only by the endcaps. If anything Frams have the closest thing to an "o-ring" holding the element and it does indeed collapse and cause the oil to bypass.

    Perhaps a little senile?


    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    You get what you pay for.
    There is a reason frams are the cheapest name brand.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Anyway for the sake of discussion...sure cut one of them open and take a pic. Lets see what in the world you are basing your filter decisions on at the least

  9. #29
    2nd-4th gen owner socmninja's Avatar
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    where can I buy a filter relocation kit? and how much are they?

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    Look back at #8. Sarge has a link to Jegs. Single mount = $47.

  11. #31
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    Well pulled the header Sunday.. Got it boxed up to ship to Pacesetters. He's going to put it in his jig to check it out. Hopefully by the end of the week, I'll have a new header on its way to me. Not sure what I'm going to do if they say they kind find a problem..

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    Heard back from the Pacesetter guy today. He claims that the header fit in the jig fine. Said there was barely any difference between my header and the ones they just produced. Then he went on to say that he's not sure where the problem was. and it must be something on my car. Just as I was about to lose it, he says, "So anyways, we will be shipping you a new header today."

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    hahaha hes a lier it sounds like ...at least there givin u a new one

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    I don't know how I missed this thread. First I hope your new header doesnt rub one out on your oil filter.

    Secondly, This oil filter discussion was a goodie. I dont know where to go with your comment(s) firebirdjones. I dont cut my filter open when i change my oil, Because its just a GP!!.. But when I was in school, I saw a couple Fram filters split open..... it was amazing how poorly contructed they looked against the others. I finally just convinced my brother never to use Fram. After all this time. lol. Its not the commercials is it Jones? I hate those damn Fram commericial's. Take one more peek inside,

  15. #35
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    LOL, ya I have heard that somewhere before. Actually when I was cutting these things apart the Fram was much better but like I said before, it's been a few years since I have cut a competitor filter apart, and designs may have changed since, who knows? Plus there are many new filters on the market now since I last did this. There may very well be some great filters out there now, but I am happy with what I have found and plan to stick with it until I get ambitious enought to buy a few competitor filters just to cut on.
    Bottom line is though, it really doesn't matter that much what filter you use or what brand oil is your flavor, so long as you change your oil at regular intervals. Larry.

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