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Need Help regarding X pipe's

This is a discussion on Need Help regarding X pipe's within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Firebirdjones Ya, magazines tested this stuff years ago. It's not a new concept. Although I agree the ...

  1. #21
    formally 01 T/A 0verkill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya, magazines tested this stuff years ago. It's not a new concept.

    Although I agree the 1 7/8 headers were considered too big on first and second gen small blocks for anything other than extremely serious stuff,,,,that's just not the case with the LS engines. They are a completely different animal with their 15 degree heads etc.....and it's been shown even with a stock cam, heads, they want the bigger headers. Once heavier modifications are made to the engine the 1 7/8 headers will continue to outshine the 1 3/4 at an even larger margin.

    You have heard countless times to go for 1 3/4's because people are still of the old thought process and haven't seen or heard otherwise. These engines are still in there infancy and new to alot of people.

    Not a big deal, but if you are going for every bit you can find, for even a bolt on car,,,,the 1 7/8's are the ticket.
    this is all the same info i found when i was researching to buy my header's with the ls it like's the bigger tube size. now going up to a 2 inch header my be to big for a stock car but i have only sean them on a few race ls cars in the mags.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    not saying you wouldn't gain anything ..but did you have 1 3/4s on before the 1 7/8s ?
    No I didn't. The bigger ones I have I got from a friend in our local GTO club. I saved about $400 buying his used (Less than 3K) Kooks Signature Series headers. I have toyed with the idea of FI but for now I am just going with the head/Cam combo. Like I posted earlier, if there is a loss of power in the lower RPM band, I can not feel it. The headers and Corsa Touring Catback really woke the car up. Witht the tune I am getting this weekend, I hope to see a slight improvement in performance as well. I hope this answers your question.

    Scott

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    Are there clearance issues with the 1 and 7/8 inch headers in the F-Body engine bay? I wonder if that is why people buy the smaller headers. I would think any header would be an improvement over the stock manifolds.

    Scott

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyTATwo View Post
    No I didn't. The bigger ones I have I got from a friend in our local GTO club. I saved about $400 buying his used (Less than 3K) Kooks Signature Series headers. I have toyed with the idea of FI but for now I am just going with the head/Cam combo. Like I posted earlier, if there is a loss of power in the lower RPM band, I can not feel it. The headers and Corsa Touring Catback really woke the car up. Witht the tune I am getting this weekend, I hope to see a slight improvement in performance as well. I hope this answers your question.

    Scott
    well then you are completely missing my point....i never said 1 7/8s would not give a gain on a stock engine...but that it wouldn't give a gain over 1 3/4s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vette0009 View Post
    At the same time I've read that the LS series Motors like a little back pressure,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I'd say it's about as fair as you are going to get considering the 1 7/8 headers are only made by a couple of manufactures. Even using a newer brand 1 3/4 header of different quality,,,you are still talking 1 3/4 tube size. With everything else being equal to make the comparison as fair as possible and satisfy the naysayers,,,,the 1 7/8 header is still going to shine.
    yea but the fact that they use budget 1 3/4th header that is known not to put up as good as numbers as some of the better 1 3/4th headers ..it was a deliberate decision.

    you will agree with me that the qtp or ARH 1 3/4ths will put up better numbers then the very old design of the pacesetter

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    yea but the fact that they use budget 1 3/4th header that is known not to put up as good as numbers as some of the better 1 3/4th headers ..it was a deliberate decision.

    you will agree with me that the qtp or ARH 1 3/4ths will put up better numbers then the very old design of the pacesetter
    Ya,,,a better quality 1 3/4 may put up better numbers than some of the cheaper 1 3/4's.
    I'm not sure what the magazines tested with,,,,that would be something to dig up for sure.

    But with collector design and tube length being the same, I believe the 1 7/8's are still going to come out on top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya,,,a better quality 1 3/4 may put up better numbers than some of the cheaper 1 3/4's.
    I'm not sure what the magazines tested with,,,,that would be something to dig up for sure.

    But with collector design and tube length being the same, I believe the 1 7/8's are still going to come out on top.
    hmm we will agree to disagree

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    Here ya go for all the non believers.

    This was a GM crate engine straight from GM Performance parts. They tested stock vette manifolds, stock F-body manifolds, 1 5/8 tube, 1 3/4 tube, and 1 7/8 tube headers.
    All headers were manufactured from TTS so there is no variances from one manufacture to the next.

    As you can see not only did the 1 7/8 headers rain supreme in peak numbers, they also made more average torque and more average HP accross the board
    This was only one test of many. I googled "ls1 header test" and got numerous hits from Car Craft, GM Performance, Hot Rod, etc....

    Also notice the HP numbers a bone stock LS1 makes with stock manifolds still in place. There was a discussion about this recently that fell on deaf ears as well.

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    well then you are completely missing my point....i never said 1 7/8s would not give a gain on a stock engine...but that it wouldn't give a gain over 1 3/4s.
    I got your point and I hope you don't think I am getting into a pissing contest with you, I am not. Originally I wanted to get 1 and 3/4 inch headers because I was concerned with clearance issues because of the bigger headers interfering with the stearing shaft but the guy who brokered the deal for the headers I bought is the '04-06 GTO tech adviser for GTOAA and said it was no big deal to get the headers in the car. Also when I asked him if I would be losing power with the bigger size headers he said "not really" and it would be a good idea to use them if I was considering further mods like forced induction or different heads and a bigger cam (I jumped on a deal for Dart Stage 3 heads from Precision Motor Sports of Florida). I remember reading on this site a few years back that the 1 and 7/8 inch headers were not good for the LS1 if you didn't do anything more to the engine. It seems to me that any different exhaust manifold that allows the gases to leave the engine faster is going to improve performance, like you stated before and to which I agree. Hope this clarifies what I was saying.

    Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Here ya go for all the non believers.

    This was a GM crate engine straight from GM Performance parts. They tested stock vette manifolds, stock F-body manifolds, 1 5/8 tube, 1 3/4 tube, and 1 7/8 tube headers.
    All headers were manufactured from TTS so there is no variances from one manufacture to the next.

    As you can see not only did the 1 7/8 headers rain supreme in peak numbers, they also made more average torque and more average HP accross the board
    This was only one test of many. I googled "ls1 header test" and got numerous hits from Car Craft, GM Performance, Hot Rod, etc....

    Also notice the HP numbers a bone stock LS1 makes with stock manifolds still in place. There was a discussion about this recently that fell on deaf ears as well.

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html

    good read.

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyTATwo View Post
    I got your point and I hope you don't think I am getting into a pissing contest with you, I am not. Originally I wanted to get 1 and 3/4 inch headers because I was concerned with clearance issues because of the bigger headers interfering with the stearing shaft but the guy who brokered the deal for the headers I bought is the '04-06 GTO tech adviser for GTOAA and said it was no big deal to get the headers in the car. Also when I asked him if I would be losing power with the bigger size headers he said "not really" and it would be a good idea to use them if I was considering further mods like forced induction or different heads and a bigger cam (I jumped on a deal for Dart Stage 3 heads from Precision Motor Sports of Florida). I remember reading on this site a few years back that the 1 and 7/8 inch headers were not good for the LS1 if you didn't do anything more to the engine. It seems to me that any different exhaust manifold that allows the gases to leave the engine faster is going to improve performance, like you stated before and to which I agree. Hope this clarifies what I was saying.

    Scott
    yea no problems

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Here ya go for all the non believers.

    This was a GM crate engine straight from GM Performance parts. They tested stock vette manifolds, stock F-body manifolds, 1 5/8 tube, 1 3/4 tube, and 1 7/8 tube headers.
    All headers were manufactured from TTS so there is no variances from one manufacture to the next.

    As you can see not only did the 1 7/8 headers rain supreme in peak numbers, they also made more average torque and more average HP accross the board
    This was only one test of many. I googled "ls1 header test" and got numerous hits from Car Craft, GM Performance, Hot Rod, etc....

    Also notice the HP numbers a bone stock LS1 makes with stock manifolds still in place. There was a discussion about this recently that fell on deaf ears as well.

    http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...est/index.html
    Good article. clears up some questions I had too.

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