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Need advice on what Headers to buy?

This is a discussion on Need advice on what Headers to buy? within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure if your squeezing all that exahust down to a Y-pipe and into a ...

  1. #21
    Member TRANS-DAD's Avatar
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    BLACK
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    I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure if your squeezing all that exahust down to a Y-pipe
    and into a catback that your making back pressure.

  2. #22
    Still The Junior Member RedVertTA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fxgs View Post
    Then get this...........it will solve that little problem:

    http://www.mufflex-performance.com/m...tegory_Code=FZ

    By the way I have QTP's and I love them
    That's a nice piece.

  3. #23
    Member ebdboudreaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    Then why do real drag racers use dual cutouts and run open headers...

    show me some proof
    Way bigger motors, that put out way more exhaust and take in way more air, and as already mentioned they stay way up in the RPM range...

    Does anyone really need to explain that to you???

  4. #24
    Member ebdboudreaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Exactly. Show me the proof. I went with Hooker LTs and their ORY, I INCREASED my highway MPG by almost 2.0. Went from almost 26 to over 28 sometimes, no tune yet. I believe my headers are 1 3/4. What the hell is 1/8 inch difference going to do for back pressure.
    I never said you wouldn't increase your MPG when going from stock to 1 3/4... I did as well..


    1/8 of an inch obviously makes a dramatic difference if they produce them... with your logic, what would be the point of anyone to ever buy 1 3/4???

    They're made/designed for a reason... Unless your gonna bore/stroke a stock LS1 you really have no reason to go above 1 3/4...

    If any of you want better proof, give a tech at ARH a call and talk to them and have them explain it to you... It's free knowledge.... take advantage of it...

  5. #25
    Member ebdboudreaux's Avatar
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    And just to make something else clear before anyone stretches what I'm saying, Im not saying more back pressure = more torque.... but there is a "happy medium"... you don't want too much, but you definitely dont want to eliminate it beyond a cetain point....

    finding this "happy medium" is the key...
    Last edited by ebdboudreaux; 03-05-2009 at 12:59 PM.

  6. #26
    Still The Junior Member RedVertTA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebdboudreaux View Post
    I never said you wouldn't increase your MPG when going from stock to 1 3/4... I did as well..
    True but you can also lose mpg's even compared to factory headers in some cases.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVertTA View Post
    That's a nice piece.
    It;s nice peice and it helps but under a hard launch I still get a little rattle.
    1998 Trans Am 85k miles.
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  8. #28
    Member ebdboudreaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedVertTA View Post
    True but you can also lose mpg's even compared to factory headers in some cases.
    I'd agree

  9. #29
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    Drag cars aren't street cars.
    sure they are

    Quote Originally Posted by ebdboudreaux View Post
    Way bigger motors, that put out way more exhaust and take in way more air, and as already mentioned they stay way up in the RPM range...

    Does anyone really need to explain that to you???
    what's the difference between that and a high-stalled LS1...I never see below 5000 RPMS after the launch, dont feed me your BS

  10. #30
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRANS-DAD View Post
    I'm no expert but I'm pretty sure if your squeezing all that exahust down to a Y-pipe
    and into a catback that your making back pressure.
    Well then you are creating back pressure by combining 4 tubes leaving the motor into one outlet, no?

    It's called a long tube header...

  11. #31
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebdboudreaux View Post
    but he'd definitely lose way more TQ with the DECREASE of backpressure...
    Quote Originally Posted by ebdboudreaux View Post
    Im not saying more back pressure = more torque
    I didn't say i was right, i simply asked for proof.

    After reading what you are saying though....well shit,

  12. #32
    Member ebdboudreaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    I didn't say i was right, i simply asked for proof.

    After reading what you are saying though....well shit,
    Like I said... there is a happy medium.... Too much or too little then you have problems... 1 7/8 on a stock LS1 would be oversized....

    Want your proof??? Call a respectable company and pretend your looking into buying a set of headers.... and ask which ones would be best for your "stock" ls1 and see what they say... and then ask why 1 7/8 wouldn't be the right set up....

  13. #33
    Member ebdboudreaux's Avatar
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    Here's your proof... You can read all about the "happy medium" im trying to convince you exists... Like I said, you don't want an UnGodly amount of backpressure... but the theory that eliminating as much of it as possible being best is BS....


    That's all well and good, but why does it affect torque at low revs? Because backpressure restricts velocity. It's the velocity of the air that actually dictates the performance characteristics of the system. High velocity exhaust increases the scavenging effect of the vacuum behind the air mass. The vacuum helps pull the remaining gasses from the combustion chamber.

    There's a balance of velocity and flow that has to be taken into consideration. Take this in for instance. You can install a 6" exhaust system on your car. The backpressure will be extremely low. But so will the velocity. The exiting emissions will have a very large tube to travel in, which allows radial travel of the gasses further outward. Thereby reducing the linear force the gas withholds. That intern reduces velocity and the scavenging effect. But, the system has the ability to flow a greater quantity. On the same note, if you have a system with too much backpressure, like a system with a very small tube, the velocity will be very high. But the amount the system can flow will be very low.

    The real performance gains happen when the balance between the flow and velocity is in unison. That is, the system with less pressure requires a higher amount of flow to achieve the same velocity as the higher restriction system. Lets take a totally uncalculated example. One engine with a 3" system and an engine with a 1" system. The "magic velocity" for our fake example will be 5m/s. For argument's sake, the 3" engine needs to run at 6,000rpm to achieve an exhaust velocity of 5m/s. Where as the 1" engine only needs to run at about 2,000rpm to achieve 5m/s of exhaust velocity. Keep in mind that this is by no means a calculated example.

    The engine in this example has the greatest scavenging effect when the exaust velocity is at 5m/s. The system with the least backpressure (the 3" system) requires more revs to hit 5m/s worth of exhaust velocity. The system with the most backpressure (the 1" system) needs less revs to hit an exhaust velocity od 5m/s.

    Each engine has a different "magic number". That is, the velocity of exiting emissions that produces the highest scavenging efficiency. The lower the backpressure; the higher the flow required to reach the desired velocity. The higher the flow required, the higher the rpm required. Thereby defining that a lower backpressure system makes the big torque at higher rpms. And makes less torque at lower revs. But as an overall scenario, the least backpressure makes the most horsepower in the end.
    http://people.msoe.edu/~lannanm/TECH...andtorque.html
    Last edited by ebdboudreaux; 03-06-2009 at 12:27 PM.

  14. #34
    Junior Member driftpin's Avatar
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    I just drove my car for the first time since installing Kooks, Kooks ORY and Hooker Catback and I'm finding that I am picking up some turbulance in the left collector. The Kooks we great going on. The stage 8 bolts are the cat's derriere. The Y pipe could have been designed a bit better, it is tight in a couple of spots and rubs during takeoff and 1-2 gearshift. I love the power from a dead stop to WOT or from 35-40 to WOT, but just driving normal I pick up some the turbulance right in the collector, not sure why. Anyhow I like the power and am going to build a bracket to push the y over in the tight spots when I weld in the SFC's. Good luck with your build.
    2000 Formula, All the bolts ons, Kooks, Quick Performance 9" 3.70, QA1, Spohn rear.

  15. #35
    Still The Junior Member RedVertTA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebdboudreaux View Post
    I'd agree

  16. #36
    Still The Junior Member RedVertTA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by driftpin View Post
    I just drove my car for the first time since installing Kooks, Kooks ORY and Hooker Catback and I'm finding that I am picking up some turbulance in the left collector. The Kooks we great going on. The stage 8 bolts are the cat's derriere. The Y pipe could have been designed a bit better, it is tight in a couple of spots and rubs during takeoff and 1-2 gearshift. I love the power from a dead stop to WOT or from 35-40 to WOT, but just driving normal I pick up some the turbulance right in the collector, not sure why. Anyhow I like the power and am going to build a bracket to push the y over in the tight spots when I weld in the SFC's. Good luck with your build.
    You never did tell me how the install went.

  17. #37
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebdboudreaux View Post
    Here's your proof... You can read all about the "happy medium" im trying to convince you exists... Like I said, you don't want an UnGodly amount of backpressure... but the theory that eliminating as much of it as possible being best is BS....




    http://people.msoe.edu/~lannanm/TECH_backpressureandtorque.html
    prove it where it counts, the track, lets see some dyno numbers too

    and who puts only headers on an LS1 anyways...1/100 people?

  18. #38
    Member ebdboudreaux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    prove it where it counts, the track, lets see some dyno numbers too

    and who puts only headers on an LS1 anyways...1/100 people?
    wtf dude... not only do you not understand anything you're being told but you really are quite ignorant...

    I don't see what you see being so hard about finding someone who is well educated on the subject (some local techs) and asking them what they think about it...


    And who the hell said "only headers"??? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this but if you're refering to me saying "putting headers on a stock ls1" I'm refering to the block.... You can do heads/cam/fast90/etc, but unless you bore/stroke, 1 3/4 is your best bet....

  19. #39
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    you said "stock" in post 32...sorry i guess i misinterpreted that as stock

    how bout you believe what you wanna believe and we go on our merry ways

  20. #40
    Still The Junior Member RedVertTA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    you said "stock" in post 32...sorry i guess i misinterpreted that as stock

    how bout you believe what you wanna believe and we go on our merry ways
    NOOOOOO!!!!! I WANTED TO SEE YOU TWO FIGHT TO THE DEATH!!!!!

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