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LT Myth or not?

This is a discussion on LT Myth or not? within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Speed_kills_WS6 I put longtubes on and it freed up some hp, made it sound better, throttle response ...

  1. #21
    NY Representative Vertiviper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed_kills_WS6 View Post
    I put longtubes on and it freed up some hp, made it sound better, throttle response improved, but really making it faster? Not really...
    weak sauce, bro.

  2. #22
    Member Speed_kills_WS6's Avatar
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    What you mean weak sauce?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by bryceslu View Post
    Wow.....

    You will gain power throughout the entire rpm range. argument ended.

    The only way that people might think otherwise is if they dont get their car tuned for it. After putting on LT's the car will not run the same as with manifolds. period.
    Most people end up running real rich on a stock tune with LT's.

    And I wish I could find it but at one point I saw 2 dyno graphs of before and after with the torque curve of the post install above that of the pre intstall across the entire range.

    Oh and you will pick up more power, or a higher amount of increase, in the higher rpm range than the lower. this can also contribute to some claims of losing power down low.
    Yeah but I would think even an untuned car would still pick up power over the stock manifold..

  4. #24
    Member Speed_kills_WS6's Avatar
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    I've heard the '02 manifolds weren't too shabby as far as flow. Of course, they won't flow as well as headers. Nonetheless, I really wanted headers because I thought it would make my car noticeably faster. It really didn't. At least, not what I expected. No matter, the cam made up for it & the heads will drive the point home. Then I'll go 6.0 stroker or FI.

  5. #25
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed_kills_WS6 View Post
    I've heard the '02 manifolds weren't too shabby as far as flow. Of course, they won't flow as well as headers. Nonetheless, I really wanted headers because I thought it would make my car noticeably faster. It really didn't. At least, not what I expected. No matter, the cam made up for it & the heads will drive the point home. Then I'll go 6.0 stroker or FI.
    You are right, and you're not the only one that has experienced the same thing.

    The 00-02 exhaust manifolds are supposed to be a better piece than previous years. So you may not see as much of a gain as others with an older model.
    I already had tuned my 02, and later I installed long tube headers and an off road Y pipe. I went back and touched up a few things in the tune.

    I only picked up a tenth at best and a solid 1 mph from my previous runs with the manifolds. That's it. DA was very similar. It just wasn't the big gain that some people claim to see, for me anyway.

  6. #26
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    a 1/8th E.T is not long enough to really show the lt's gain. You dont loose power with longtubes...what they do is change the scavenging characteristics of the exhaust system as a whole. this usually moves the power curve higher up in the rpm band. so while you get gains throughout the entire rpm band...you gain much more on the mid to higher rpms..so it "feels" like you lose low end torque

  7. #27
    Stockitie Stock Stock 95camaroZNC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike0202 View Post
    Alot of people say their car "feels" slower after installing long tube headers. Is this a myth or do the LT's really loose a bit of torque down low but raise the power band?
    Be prepared, the first time i floored it the car messed my neck up lol.

  8. #28
    Member qwk93ta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed_kills_WS6 View Post
    I put longtubes on and it freed up some hp, made it sound better, throttle response improved, but really making it faster? Not really...
    What headers did you install?

  9. #29
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    You are right, and you're not the only one that has experienced the same thing.

    The 00-02 exhaust manifolds are supposed to be a better piece than previous years. So you may not see as much of a gain as others with an older model.
    I already had tuned my 02, and later I installed long tube headers and an off road Y pipe. I went back and touched up a few things in the tune.

    I only picked up a tenth at best and a solid 1 mph from my previous runs with the manifolds. That's it. DA was very similar. It just wasn't the big gain that some people claim to see, for me anyway.
    must need that "driver mod" i hear so much about
    you are right though. the newer style manifolds are very good pieces for what they are.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    must need that "driver mod" i hear so much about
    you are right though. the newer style manifolds are very good pieces for what they are.
    glad i got a 98 then

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike0202 View Post
    glad i got a 98 then
    why? with headers we all make the same numbers basically..it is just that the 00-02s had a better platform to start with.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed_kills_WS6 View Post
    I've heard the '02 manifolds weren't too shabby as far as flow. Of course, they won't flow as well as headers. Nonetheless, I really wanted headers because I thought it would make my car noticeably faster. It really didn't. At least, not what I expected. No matter, the cam made up for it & the heads will drive the point home. Then I'll go 6.0 stroker or FI.
    I'm feeling the Stroker or FI... I've been in an endless debate in my mind to get a Maggie S/C or build me a 427.

    The big think with the headers Is you'll notice more gains out of everything you put on post install. It may only have given you 6hp now, but I imagine it got you another 10-15% out of the cam, and then it will give you some more in conjunction with the heads. NOT HUGE gains, but after awhile headers vs stock manifolds will become +15-25hp in favor of the LT's

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike0202 View Post
    glad i got a 98 then
    I'm not sure what all these people have done and each car varies. I would get the LT's just so you can optimize gains later. I had my LT's put on after I did my H/C swap and I noticed BIG seat of the pants Gains... I didn't make a pass pre LT's on the new H/C package just post. I dropped a full second off my time in the 1/4 and gained 5mph on trap speed. My H/C isn't anything wild either. Hell It really doesn't lope and I gained 1mpg on the highway

  13. #33
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    must need that "driver mod" i hear so much about
    you are right though. the newer style manifolds are very good pieces for what they are.
    Na, it's an old mans car (auto) doesn't get any easier to drive, just stab and steer


    On a more serious note, keeping in mind this was an otherwise stock 02 with just headers. Small truck camshaft etc...so the car just wasn't starving in the breathing department. Hence the reason headers just didn't do much for it. I installed them mainly for future plans.

    My wifes 2000 on the other hand, had a small camshaft slightly larger than the LS6 cam. But was still running through the manifolds and cats to pass Florida emissions. When I installed headers and off road Y on that car, it was a much bigger improvement.

  14. #34
    The f**king Eagles?! JB454's Avatar
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    One thing to keep in mind is that the engine is basically an air pump. And with LT's being a external change, they are usually done first. The later exhaust manifold are good pieces (better, as said than the earlier yrs) and are capable of flowing enough to take care of a "stock" ls1. They will be alot more benneficial after heads and cam, etc. Thats when the stock manifolds will become restrictive, and the LT's will keep the increased exhaust flowing. I am going to order them and the ory to put in front of a LMII cat back and continue doing all the cheaper things to complement a supercharger, but don't expect any changes I can feel with that alone. Definition of a car - A hole in the driveway you throw your money into... Just my .02

  15. #35
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    if you check out my thread on the dyno that i just posted in my case i gained 5-6 RWTQ and 15 RWHP but the car did feel slower especially after my tune.

  16. #36
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    My experience:

    With only lid, muffler, I was running 13.5x/105.x

    Nov. 2006, I installed Hooker LT/ORY, but the track was now closed. No tune then.

    Spring 2007, now I was running 13.1x/107.x
    Went on a long trip, gas MPG went from 26.x to low 28. Still no tune.

    Oct. 2007, perfect weather at the drag strip (50? degrees?), I did a 60 ft of 1.98 and ran a best that night of 12.89 @ 109.85. 7 runs that night, all over 109 MPH. No tune yet....

    Fast forward to now, I got a mail order tune from Frost, in Spring 2010, finally my SES light is out LOL. Ran in June this year, had a couple of 107 passes, 13.2x. I don't know what the DA was, but temps that night got in the high 60s. 60 ft sucked, around 2.18 or so. I need new tires, mine are almost worn out. At least I was faster than the Camaro SS 6-speed that night, he was trapping 106.x. Not gonna do drag radails, I don't have any spare $$$ for a new rear axle.


    So, no, OP, I found it's a myth concerning loss of power when you add LTs. At least for my mild engine combo.
    Last edited by Too Fast; 07-23-2010 at 03:43 PM.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    My experience:

    With only lid, muffler, I was running 13.5x/105.x

    Nov. 2006, I installed Hooker LT/ORY, but the track was now closed. No tune then.

    Spring 2007, now I was running 13.1x/107.x
    Went on a long trip, gas MPG went from 26.x to low 28. Still no tune.

    Oct. 2007, perfect weather at the drag strip (50? degrees?), I did a 60 ft of 1.98 and ran a best that night of 12.89 @ 109.85. 7 runs that night, all over 109 MPH. No tune yet....

    Fast forward to now, I got a mail order tune from Frost, in Spring 2010, finally my SES light is out LOL. Ran in June this year, had a couple of 107 passes, 13.2x. I don't know what the DA was, but temps that night got in the high 60s. 60 ft sucked, around 2.18 or so. I need new tires, mine are almost worn out. At least I was faster than the Camaro SS 6-speed that night, he was trapping 106.x. Not gonna do drag radails, I don't have any spare $$$ for a new rear axle.


    So, no, OP, I found it's a myth concerning loss of power when you add LTs. At least for my mild engine combo.
    Does the SES light always come on after lts? How exactly does a mail tune work? :/

  18. #38
    The f**king Eagles?! JB454's Avatar
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    After deleting the cats...It gripes.

  19. #39
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike0202 View Post
    Does the SES light always come on after lts? How exactly does a mail tune work? :/
    If you put LTs on, and an ORY, yes the SES light will always come on, because you've eliminated your converters.

    Also, if your LTs don't have provisions for EGR and AIR emissions, that will turn on the light as well.

    A mail order tune works because the tuner knows what you have done, and he can optimize your PCMs strategy to work best with what you have.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    If you put LTs on, and an ORY, yes the SES light will always come on, because you've eliminated your converters.

    Also, if your LTs don't have provisions for EGR and AIR emissions, that will turn on the light as well.

    A mail order tune works because the tuner knows what you have done, and he can optimize your PCMs strategy to work best with what you have.
    I will be keeping my cats, and all the egr/air emmissions so should i be ok? I really dont have money for a tune right now.

    Also this mail order tune is new to me. Ill have to research it a bit more.

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