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Intake "heatsoak" question...

This is a discussion on Intake "heatsoak" question... within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Szalkerous Personally, still, I'd go with an aluminum intake over a plastic one. Three reasons: 1) I ...

  1. #21
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szalkerous View Post
    Personally, still, I'd go with an aluminum intake over a plastic one.

    Three reasons:

    1) I intend to supercharge the motor.

    2) I can't justify over twice the cost on a plastic manifold that I have yet to see unbiased evidence proving it is a better product.

    3) Metal intakes have been run for years on cars making quite a bit of power, and I'd think if it made such a difference, GM would have swapped over years ago. I personally do believe the only reason for swapping is simply cost shaving. Aluminum is by far more expensive of a material than plastic. If someone can quote a GM engineer to the contrary, I'd love to see it. (EDIT: As I did some research on the Aluminum market, it had indeed skyrocketed from the late 90's through to around late 2007, where the economy began to falter, and the price has tanked since, which would explain why aluminum intakes are getting so affordable suddenly.)
    just to let you know..our intakes are not plastic..its not like they melted down some milk jugs and made a intake out of them...

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    Official Response from BBK:

    An aluminum intake manifold will be hotter to the touch than plastic one. However it's affect on the intake air charge is really nothing notable.

    The intake air charge goes through the manifold so fast that the temperature of the manifold has no affect on the temperature of the charge as it reaches the cylinder heads.

    If you crank up your oven to 450 degrees and open the door, then thrust your hand in and pull it back out as fast as you can without touching anything inside you will not get burned. In fact you will barely feel anything.

    Now imagine that your hand is the incoming air and that the oven is the manifold and multiply the speed at which you are able to get your hand in and out about 500% which would represent air coming in at idle speeds.

    The BBK SSI did outperform the FAST intake on a dyno test at Westech a few years back that Richard Holdener performed for one of the magazines.

    Another noteworthy thing about the BBK SSI intake is that it has a removable bottom plate which is designed to blow out in the case of a N2o backfire.

    The FAST, stock or other plastic/nylon intake would be destroyed in a case such as this, but the BBK would just need a new gasket and plate.

    I'm actually sending a replacement out for a customer today due to a backfire.

    Most likely FAST makes those intakes out of the nylon material because that's the easiest way for them to get it out the door with a profit. I imagine if they had a pattern shop, mold facility, and aluminum foundry that they too would make their intakes out of aluminum if there was a better profit in it for them.
    Last edited by Szalkerous; 03-19-2009 at 12:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Szalkerous View Post
    Official Response from BBK:

    An aluminum intake manifold will be hotter to the touch than plastic one. However it's affect on the intake air charge is really nothing notable.

    The intake air charge goes through the manifold so fast that the temperature of the manifold has no affect on the temperature of the charge as it reaches the cylinder heads.

    If you crank up your oven to 450 degrees and open the door, then thrust your hand in and pull it back out as fast as you can without touching anything inside you will not get burned. In fact you will barely feel anything.

    Now imagine that your hand is the incoming air and that the oven is the manifold and multiply the speed at which you are able to get your hand in and out about 500% which would represent air coming in at idle speeds.

    The BBK SSI did outperform the FAST intake on a dyno test at Westech a few years back that Richard Holdener performed for one of the magazines.

    Another noteworthy thing about the BBK SSI intake is that it has a removable bottom plate which is designed to blow out in the case of a N2o backfire.

    The FAST, stock or other plastic/nylon intake would be destroyed in a case such as this, but the BBK would just need a new gasket and plate.

    I'm actually sending a replacement out for a customer today due to a backfire.

    Most likely FAST makes those intakes out of the nylon material because that's the easiest way for them to get it out the door with a profit. I imagine if they had a pattern shop, mold facility, and aluminum foundry that they too would make their intakes out of aluminum if there was a better profit in it for them.
    hmm good info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Crash View Post


    They did! what comes on the LSx engines???
    I believe the intakes prior to fourth gen were metal based, am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Szalkerous View Post
    I believe the intakes prior to fourth gen were metal based, am I wrong?
    the lt1 are cast iron i believe..which means early 4th gens also had metal...however talking about lsX engines..there has not been a stock metal intake

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    the lt1 are cast iron i believe..which means early 4th gens also had metal...however talking about lsX engines..there has not been a stock metal intake
    This I agree with, however, I would think if there was efficiency to be had in a plastic/nylon/non-metal material based intake, they would have swapped over in the 80's during the last fuel mileage race. This is why I said they would have swapped over years ago. I guess Crash didn't understand my point exactly.

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    Also, to remain fair, I am still awaiting F.A.S.T. 's response to the same question I sent BBK.

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    Ok so it did out perform the FAST..... Years ago. What was the application? Just like with royal purpules testing I'm sure it's biased. Fast also has the blow off plates. When did bbk give u this info. Maybe two years ago this would have been correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Crash View Post
    Ok so it did out perform the FAST..... Years ago. What was the application? Just like with royal purpules testing I'm sure it's biased. Fast also has the blow off plates. When did bbk give u this info. Maybe two years ago this would have been correct
    The response was given to me today, promptly, by BBK.

    The BBK response clearly stated it was a few years back, gave names and reasons. I suspect the research was somewhat independent as it was intended for a magazine, but it's obvious if that test had shown the BBK intake in a poor light they wouldn't cite it as a reference. I'm in the process of digging up this reference now.

    I do not deny they obviously want to sell their product. This is why I posed the same question to F.A.S.T., of whom has yet to respond. If F.A.S.T. can provide cited references to their product outperforming a metal intake for composition reasons, I'll gladly also relay that evidence here.

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    This is the link to the facility that did the testing:

    http://www.westechperformance.com

    I do not see any affiliation or reference to BBK on their site whatsoever. I have contacted them for a transcript of this test that BBK has cited.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Szalkerous View Post
    The response was given to me today, promptly, by BBK.

    The BBK response clearly stated it was a few years back, gave names and reasons. I suspect the research was somewhat independent as it was intended for a magazine, but it's obvious if that test had shown the BBK intake in a poor light they wouldn't cite it as a reference. I'm in the process of digging up this reference now.

    I do not deny they obviously want to sell their product. This is why I posed the same question to F.A.S.T., of whom has yet to respond. If F.A.S.T. can provide cited references to their product outperforming a metal intake for composition reasons, I'll gladly also relay that evidence here.

    Well the royal purple test was done by Horsepower TV, but it was still biased. Im not saying that the BBK doesnt flow well, or isnt a great price. i guess the question is, if the BBK is better and is cheaper why wouldnt more people buy it or recomend it? i would also imagine that any info FAST gives you would be biased as well. Maybe FAST is just to busy selling their products to answer you

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    heres a thread i started a while ago, what iused to help me make my choice

    Fast vs bbk intake

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    Honestly, I read all the threads I could find regarding this, and found mostly opinion and preference. We all know what opinions are like.

    I frankly don't care what you, your mother, your grandmother, or your best friend think about the intake options. What I'm looking for is research and reference documentation proving performance attributes of either.

    You don't hand in a research paper to a professor without cited references and proven results.... likewise, that's what I'm attempting to do here.

    If anyone has proven evidence to support either side, I ask you to post it here to assist in clarifying the options.

    (This is not to say I don't appreciate those who have spoken up, I just think that discussion has happened elsewhere and would like to see hard numbers.)

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    ok fair enough, but alot of those people with their "opinions" have dyno numbers to prove it. did BBK supply you with dyno numbers from both intakes? i dont think so. really what that means then is that what BBK said is just their "OPINION", right? and im sure that the people at BBK arent someones mother, grandmother, or best friend, so you can trust them right?
    Last edited by Dr.Crash; 03-19-2009 at 08:57 PM.

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    Also that link you posted provided NO proof.

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    on a hot summer day at op temp if you shut the car off take infrad heat gun read of intake heads etc then check in 5 min it will be hotter due to heat soak why you think turbo cars and trucks let them idle for a couple of min before shuting down that turbo is hot and leting idle cools the oil alittle bit to help with heat soak I still wouldn't worry about a aluminium intake I would run one if my car made more power no doubt

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    Dosent a intake that dosent get as hot keep cooler air going thru it which creates more power? Isnt that why they ice down the intake, to keep the incomming air cooler? Hence the plastic FAST intakes, plastic does not absorb heat like aluminum does so the incomming air stays cooler. Let me know if I am wrong...thats just what I thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Crash View Post
    Also that link you posted provided NO proof.
    Not to sound condescending, but do you read before you comment?

    I clearly stated BBK's response, where they cited a reference done by an outside party. I also clearly stated that I was attempting to get the results frmo that outside source to validate BBK's claim. I never wrote that what BBK's responded with was a valid test result. I also never wrote that the link to Wesbrook was the answer, only that it was the link to the facility that I was attempting to contact FOR the results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BADASS2000SS View Post
    Dosent a intake that dosent get as hot keep cooler air going thru it which creates more power? Isnt that why they ice down the intake, to keep the incomming air cooler? Hence the plastic FAST intakes, plastic does not absorb heat like aluminum does so the incomming air stays cooler. Let me know if I am wrong...thats just what I thought.
    The theory here is, that the air moves with such alacrity that it does not become drastically affected by the surrounding material, thus making the actual composition of the intake less of a factor than is already assumed.

    The purpose of this thread is to find credible proof to or against that theory.

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