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How to run your LS1 on E85

This is a discussion on How to run your LS1 on E85 within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; i agree, if the tree huggers want to save the world, then maybe they can start with the other 4+ ...

  1. #101
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    i agree, if the tree huggers want to save the world, then maybe they can start with the other 4+ billion out there making a mess of things. I love nature and I sure as heck love my beloved ocean. But looking at photos of mushroom clouds kissing the stars may just be one of these so called factors we think screws up the earth. I could be wrong, but I don't our planet was ment to host such devistation and abuse.

    I what I haven't found is whether or not E85 in a LS1 is good or bad.

    Oh and if global warming is true, write Al Gore a letter and ask him how he gets to work, and did it come with chrome bumpers.

    JJ

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by kool-aide View Post
    i agree, if the tree huggers want to save the world, then maybe they can start with the other 4+ billion out there making a mess of things. I love nature and I sure as heck love my beloved ocean. But looking at photos of mushroom clouds kissing the stars may just be one of these so called factors we think screws up the earth. I could be wrong, but I don't our planet was ment to host such devistation and abuse.

    I what I haven't found is whether or not E85 in a LS1 is good or bad.

    Oh and if global warming is true, write Al Gore a letter and ask him how he gets to work, and did it come with chrome bumpers.

    JJ
    say what?????you speak english???most people read over their posts before they publish them.

  3. #103
    Senior Member kool-aide's Avatar
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    yes english so many have mastered it, and then came along the keyboard and lazy proof readers. no doubt you are refering to my last couple of lines. if i fixed them then i wouldn't have anything to laugh over. Well i guess you won't see me putting E85 in my car, since no one solved the debate. I may be late, but i am still very interested in the facts about this so called renewable green living bs. thanks for pointing out i am a terrible proof reader. Not all C students grow up to be president.

    JJ

  4. #104
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    You two go have your fuckyoufest in PM will ya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kool-aide View Post
    i agree, if the tree huggers want to save the world, then maybe they can start with the other 4+ billion out there making a mess of things.
    China is making AND going to be making a hell of lot more of a mess than the US is. The developing countries in the rest of Asia will soon be out buying even the US's oil consumption. And they aren't doing shit about the potential environmental aspects of their abuses.

    Why do 350 million people have to play by stupid ass rules while the rest of the world, INCLUDING the middle eastern and south american oil producers just laugh at us? Because too many Americans accept everything that the liberal media toss out their asses as facts.

  6. #106
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    experience with e85, no agenda

    Okay, I have an agenda... the truth. (and I like horsepower, and lots of it)

    I've read a lot of what I consider propaganda over the e85 issue and certain movies come to mine. One is Tucker, how the big three conspired to kill the new car company. One is "Who killed the electric car?" Another was a special I saw on who killed the trolleys. I also remember the story about Edison killing an elephant to convince people DC is not safe.

    If you are under 30, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll get to the point. Anytime there is change, the people in power (political, economic or whatever) are going to fight tooth and nail against the change if they think it threatens them. (the record industry v. MP3 is a good one) One weapon they use is hyperbole. I see a lot of this in the argument regarding e85.

    So I'd like to submit:

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...803341&page=34

    Here's a guy running a Subaru WRX on e85 complete with almost 2 years worth of data and experience.

    Also, I don't compare e85 with pump gas in regards to price. I compare it to the 100 Octane I buy at the 76 ($6/gal) or the 104/108 at the track. ($8/gal) Compared to those gasolines, e85 is less than half price. So 30% hit in mileage isn't a big deal. However e85 can produce the same or more power when tuned for it. Since everything I drive requires premium fuel, I consider e85 well worth looking into. I think anyone that drives a high hp car should be looking into all options.

    I'd also like to say gasoline engines have had 100 years of technology to perfect them and make them as efficient as they are today. I think the fact that e85 is "out of the gate" so close to gasoline in many ways, says the future is very good for it's use in cars. Lets see where e85 is in 10-20 years. It's worth looking at.

    Lastly, it seems every nation that is a big oil exporter doesn't really have our, USA's, best interests in mind. Whether it's the Arabs, or central America, none have a nice thing to say about the US. I'd rather give my money to American farmers, or any other country that has a better attitude about the USA than those who pump the oil.

    For all of these reasons I'm running a 30% blend of e85 now and will be working this year to convert at least one vehicle we drive to 100% e85 by the end of this year.

  7. #107
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    Another E85 link www.e85performance.net
    Look up Jessie hes making over 1400 RWHP

  8. #108
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    I just wanted to put my two cents into the E85 discussion. More plants used for cars = higher prices at the grocery store. Corn is in many products, that includes corn based starches.

    Also being a horticulture major in college, I learned soil needs nutrients to grow food. Many farms now have a hard time balancing this out. They have to leave fields dormant for years at a time, just to let the nutrients return. Or their fields will no longer be good.
    So how do you get around this? Fertalizer.

    So lets say we make enough fertalizer to grow large amounts of corn (and what not) year round. Demand will be through the roof if this E85 project takes off. The production of fertalizer is not a healthy process, and in many cases it is a poison. Now how much more fertalizer will we need? and how much energy is going into the production of this fertalizer?

    Also what about bad weather. What would a large drought do to our gas prices. How about flooding, wild fires, insects and to a lesser effect aliens destroying product with crop circles? (kidding)

    I think they are important issues that are over looked way to often. E85 has a place, just not in the mass market. I think learning ways of using less gas in our cars (prius type vehicles, that don't plug into your wall) is the best thing to do right now. And while we use these electric/gas hybrids, we look for an even more efficient fuel.
    Last edited by Kup98ss; 02-16-2008 at 08:55 AM.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kup98ss View Post
    I just wanted to put my two cents into the E85 discussion. More plants used for cars = higher prices at the grocery store. Corn is in many products, that includes corn based starches.

    Also being a horticulture major in college, I learned soil needs nutrients to grow food. Many farms now have a hard time balancing this out. They have to leave fields dormant for years at a time, just to let the nutrients return. Or their fields will no longer be good.
    So how do you get around this? Fertalizer.

    So lets say we make enough fertalizer to grow large amounts of corn (and what not) year round. Demand will be through the roof if this E85 project takes off. The production of fertalizer is not a healthy process, and in many cases it is a poison. Now how much more fertalizer will we need? and how much energy is going into the production of this fertalizer?

    Also what about bad weather. What would a large drought do to our gas prices. How about flooding, wild fires, insects and to a lesser effect aliens destroying product with crop circles? (kidding)

    I think they are important issues that are over looked way to often. E85 has a place, just not in the mass market. I think learning ways of using less gas in our cars (prius type vehicles, that don't plug into your wall) is the best thing to do right now. And while we use these electric/gas hybrids, we look for an even more efficient fuel.

    How many horticulture major's can't spell the word fertilizer? Maybe that's a more important question. Sorry, I had to.

  10. #110
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    Heres what I think of E85,,,,

    Biofuels are only the latest cause du jour that our nadless politicians use to appease the enviro-extremists among us and to extract lobbyist funds for their next re-election efforts (I call it criminal bribery). Energy independance from Middle East tyrants comes from only one decisive initiative----drill here at home for our own 20-plus trillion barrels of oil reserves, within and off our shores, period.
    It is well accepted that alcohols as racing fuels are superior to gasoline. So is nitro in any blend, and hydrazine. But none of those fuels is readily available, acceptable, or economically viable as an everyday motor fuel. There is only one cheap, available, clean, and powerful liquid fuel at our current state of scientific maturity: gasoline.
    A flex fuel vehicle that gets 32 mpg on gas will only get 21 mpg on E85. Moreover, it runs poorly until warmed up a bit. The BTU content (2/3) and volumes (almost double) of alcohol fuels required for the same power output are correct. As for E85 costing $2.80 verses $3.15 for regular gas, that is the result of deep subsidies extracted from all of us taxpayers. Without those subsidies, ethanol would retail for around $4.00 a gallon.
    At 2/3 the mpg, that is about $5.25 per gallon. Economical?? Not to mention that the cost of corn has risen about 350% in the last 18 months. Some food prices have doubled. And at this level, plans for new ethanol distilleries are now on hold, with others cutting back production. Today's fat subsidies can't cover the losses at current corn prices. Yet our government still subsidizes sugar, a better biofuel stock.
    The by-products of burning gas are known to all of us. All are currently treated by catalists to a nearly imperceptible level per mile. Biofuels also produce the same pollutant volumes per pound burned plus the compound acetaldehyde, a respiratory irritant, a potential carcinogen, and the mojor contributor to photochemical smog. Here is some research data for you to digest. For the total production cycle to produce a gallon of liquid fuels, it takes 9-12 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol verses 1-2 gallons to produce a gallon of gasoline. Ethanol requires 10-12 gallons of petrolium crude (or 1 ton of coal) per gallon in the form of fertilizers, pesticides, cultivation, harvesting, and the heat for production, transportation, distribution, and storage controls....Gasoline, on the other hand, comes directly from crude. As for by-products of production, there are 19 gallons of recoverable liquid fuels from a standard 54.5 gallon barrel of crude. We get plastics, fertilizers, pesticides, medicines, and a diverse lubricants spectrum from the remaining 35.5 gallons of petrolium. And the dregs left over we use to pave our roads. In fact, petrolium is nearly 100% usable in a wide variety of industries, with little to no waste products. Biofuel production by-products have little value beyond maybe animal feed additives or bulk toxic landfill mass.
    Finally, for us humans to supplant all our global liquid fuel needs with biofuels would require the conversion of about 40% of the total global arable land area to corn and/or sugar cane, which would not leave enough land to feed humanity. Nor can our planet accepts the drawdown in CO2 these plants would absorb in the quantity required. Remember,,, CO2 is a plant food, not a pollutant that the environmentalists would have you believe. And, at only 320 parts per million in our atmosphere (0.032%), the drawdown of this crucial gas would be as, or more, environmentally catastrophic to all life in our closed biosphere as humanity (allegedly) is increasing it too much. This is the "duh factor" of using biofuels as our primary motor fuel.

  11. #111
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proud2bSS View Post
    China is making AND going to be making a hell of lot more of a mess than the US is. The developing countries in the rest of Asia will soon be out buying even the US's oil consumption. And they aren't doing shit about the potential environmental aspects of their abuses.

    Why do 350 million people have to play by stupid ass rules while the rest of the world, INCLUDING the middle eastern and south american oil producers just laugh at us? Because too many Americans accept everything that the liberal media toss out their asses as facts.
    You are exactly right.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 02-18-2008 at 11:51 AM.

  12. #112
    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Heres what I think of E85,,,,

    Biofuels are only the latest cause du jour that our nadless politicians use to appease the enviro-extremists among us and to extract lobbyist funds for their next re-election efforts (I call it criminal bribery). Energy independance from Middle East tyrants comes from only one decisive initiative----drill here at home for our own 20-plus trillion barrels of oil reserves, within and off our shores, period.
    It is well accepted that alcohols as racing fuels are superior to gasoline. So is nitro in any blend, and hydrazine. But none of those fuels is readily available, acceptable, or economically viable as an everyday motor fuel. There is only one cheap, available, clean, and powerful liquid fuel at our current state of scientific maturity: gasoline.
    A flex fuel vehicle that gets 32 mpg on gas will only get 21 mpg on E85. Moreover, it runs poorly until warmed up a bit. The BTU content (2/3) and volumes (almost double) of alcohol fuels required for the same power output are correct. As for E85 costing $2.80 verses $3.15 for regular gas, that is the result of deep subsidies extracted from all of us taxpayers. Without those subsidies, ethanol would retail for around $4.00 a gallon.
    At 2/3 the mpg, that is about $5.25 per gallon. Economical?? Not to mention that the cost of corn has risen about 350% in the last 18 months. Some food prices have doubled. And at this level, plans for new ethanol distilleries are now on hold, with others cutting back production. Today's fat subsidies can't cover the losses at current corn prices. Yet our government still subsidizes sugar, a better biofuel stock.
    The by-products of burning gas are known to all of us. All are currently treated by catalists to a nearly imperceptible level per mile. Biofuels also produce the same pollutant volumes per pound burned plus the compound acetaldehyde, a respiratory irritant, a potential carcinogen, and the mojor contributor to photochemical smog. Here is some research data for you to digest. For the total production cycle to produce a gallon of liquid fuels, it takes 9-12 gallons of water to produce a gallon of ethanol verses 1-2 gallons to produce a gallon of gasoline. Ethanol requires 10-12 gallons of petrolium crude (or 1 ton of coal) per gallon in the form of fertilizers, pesticides, cultivation, harvesting, and the heat for production, transportation, distribution, and storage controls....Gasoline, on the other hand, comes directly from crude. As for by-products of production, there are 19 gallons of recoverable liquid fuels from a standard 54.5 gallon barrel of crude. We get plastics, fertilizers, pesticides, medicines, and a diverse lubricants spectrum from the remaining 35.5 gallons of petrolium. And the dregs left over we use to pave our roads. In fact, petrolium is nearly 100% usable in a wide variety of industries, with little to no waste products. Biofuel production by-products have little value beyond maybe animal feed additives or bulk toxic landfill mass.
    Finally, for us humans to supplant all our global liquid fuel needs with biofuels would require the conversion of about 40% of the total global arable land area to corn and/or sugar cane, which would not leave enough land to feed humanity. Nor can our planet accepts the drawdown in CO2 these plants would absorb in the quantity required. Remember,,, CO2 is a plant food, not a pollutant that the environmentalists would have you believe. And, at only 320 parts per million in our atmosphere (0.032%), the drawdown of this crucial gas would be as, or more, environmentally catastrophic to all life in our closed biosphere as humanity (allegedly) is increasing it too much. This is the "duh factor" of using biofuels as our primary motor fuel.
    Haha, okay, how about we move this to the political forum. I'd like to know where you're getting your information. I don't discount your opinion, but I'll respectfully disagree with some of it. Unless you have proof, the particular opinon you have on water is wrong. Gasoline uses over 40 gallons of water per gallon to refine. Just as the EPA says here:


    http://media.mgbg.com/wkrg/photos/we...ater_Facts.pdf

    Item #50 says 1851 gallons of water per gallon of crude oil, which translates in to 42 gallons per gallon of crude oil if that barrel has 44 gallons in it. Not to mention only about half of that barrel of crude is gasoline.

    To say that fuel economy on E85 compared to gasoline drops 35% is just simply not true. (32 mpg down to 21 mpg) Just because E85 has about 70% of the btu's that gasoline does per gallon does not necessarily mean that the fuel economy of the vehicle is going to decrease by that exact amount. The automakers need to do a better job on their tuning. Every vehicle is different, but I have everyday proof that a flex-fuel Taurus loses about 10% fuel economy using E85 compared to gasoline. For the record, at $3/gallon of gasoline, that would make E85 at $2.70/gallon a wash. In this area, E85 is .60 cents cheaper per gallon than gasoline.

    www.e85fuel.com

    and lastly, here's something for you to 'digest' and discount some of your opinions.

    http://www.iowacorn.org/ethanol/docu...thanol_000.pdf

  13. #113
    Member hoss 2000 z-28's Avatar
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    Personally I could give two shits about lowering C02, being green, etc. If E85 makes Captain Planet's mullet greener, I won't complain. I'm more about keeping my $ stateside and secondly if I can make more power and keep a cleaner engine, etc. then E85 is the way to go.

    As far as gasoline goes, they need to tap Alaska instead of spending money on Hugo Chavez, Arabic Shieks, and the utterly corrupt Nigerian refineries.

    Some of you guys say running E85 works exceptionally well and others say it would be more entertaining to set your car on fire for the same results.

    I agree there is a lot of political agenda BS that has contaminated the research. There are conflicting "facts" going around. Pictures of gleaming 100K motors vs disfigured fuel delivery components...

    There are too many smart people out there for the Ethenol debate be this F'd up.

  14. #114
    Junior Member Mr.Big's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt621 View Post
    Okay, I have an agenda... the truth. (and I like horsepower, and lots of it)

    I've read a lot of what I consider propaganda over the e85 issue and certain movies come to mine. One is Tucker, how the big three conspired to kill the new car company. One is "Who killed the electric car?" Another was a special I saw on who killed the trolleys. I also remember the story about Edison killing an elephant to convince people DC is not safe.

    If you are under 30, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll get to the point. Anytime there is change, the people in power (political, economic or whatever) are going to fight tooth and nail against the change if they think it threatens them. (the record industry v. MP3 is a good one) One weapon they use is hyperbole. I see a lot of this in the argument regarding e85.

    So I'd like to submit:

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...803341&page=34

    Here's a guy running a Subaru WRX on e85 complete with almost 2 years worth of data and experience.

    Also, I don't compare e85 with pump gas in regards to price. I compare it to the 100 Octane I buy at the 76 ($6/gal) or the 104/108 at the track. ($8/gal) Compared to those gasolines, e85 is less than half price. So 30% hit in mileage isn't a big deal. However e85 can produce the same or more power when tuned for it. Since everything I drive requires premium fuel, I consider e85 well worth looking into. I think anyone that drives a high hp car should be looking into all options.

    I'd also like to say gasoline engines have had 100 years of technology to perfect them and make them as efficient as they are today. I think the fact that e85 is "out of the gate" so close to gasoline in many ways, says the future is very good for it's use in cars. Lets see where e85 is in 10-20 years. It's worth looking at.

    Lastly, it seems every nation that is a big oil exporter doesn't really have our, USA's, best interests in mind. Whether it's the Arabs, or central America, none have a nice thing to say about the US. I'd rather give my money to American farmers, or any other country that has a better attitude about the USA than those who pump the oil.

    For all of these reasons I'm running a 30% blend of e85 now and will be working this year to convert at least one vehicle we drive to 100% e85 by the end of this year.
    I know it's been a while since this post, but you took the words right off of my keyboard... I want to make the most, and safest power possible... and E85 is 1 helluva lot cheaper than the race gas I buy now... I'm currently searching for the answers to go E85 on my setup now... thanks for the good read... (both sides)

  15. #115
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    E85 mixed in with gasoline decreases gas mileage, my Auto Mechanic Instructors even say that ...E85 is bull shit! Ethanol creates more hydro-carbons, less fuel economy and is a self defeating solution to our problems, though the main reason is to get less dependent on "Mid-East" gasoline...though adding it to gasoline is also another contributor to the higher gas prices, the fact that gas prices are this high is criminal and this whole situation is just FUBAR...Hippies and Tree Huggers, EPA, CAFE can go suck a huge fat one...


    EDIT: Oh and Global Warming BS can go suck a fat one too...fuck Al Gore...Go BOB LUTZ!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon_Z28 View Post
    E85 mixed in with gasoline decreases gas mileage, my Auto Mechanic Instructors even say that ...E85 is bull shit! Ethanol creates more hydro-carbons, less fuel economy and is a self defeating solution to our problems, though the main reason is to get less dependent on "Mid-East" gasoline...though adding it to gasoline is also another contributor to the higher gas prices, the fact that gas prices are this high is criminal and this whole situation is just FUBAR...Hippies and Tree Huggers, EPA, CAFE can go suck a huge fat one...


    EDIT: Oh and Global Warming BS can go suck a fat one too...fuck Al Gore...Go BOB LUTZ!

    Okay, if you took away the 7 to 9 billion gallons of ethanol production per year don't you think our gas prices would be even higher than they are? You don't have a clue what you're even saying. At the moment, the only thing that could make up that difference is oil......where do you think it'd come from? Wake up!
    Last edited by FasstChevys; 03-19-2008 at 11:51 AM.

  17. #117
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    i gotts ta chime in lol.

    ok, alternate fuels are NEEDED. period. the problem is that everyone who's in a position to do something about it is already making money off oil...why bring a new player to the equation and start over? thats where are problem lies.

    electricity is the obvious front-runner, but the gov't already messed that up...bad. look up the gm ev-1, the first modern electric car sold in the u.s. people loved it, then (the gov't forcecd gm to make them) the gov't backed down for "unknown reasons" gm wouldn't renew any leases on em or sell em, they ended up being crushed in front of a crowd of i think about 30 people who had a check for some million dollars to buy the last ones left.

    btw they were faster, and got better $$ to mile ratio than your average 4 banger (and near silent)

    now the gov't is blowing smoke up our aces about hydrogen(currently an impossibility in a passenger vehicle) and e85(completely unpractical as we can't make enough and we're shooting grain prices through the roof (mostly from the gov't money going to farmers for e85)

    although i can't see any reason not to put it in your car, though i'd recommend gas + ethanol to a mixture safe enough to use without risking damage. i just disagree with it fundamentally

    though you will be stuck paying ridiculous prices for e85 if the gov't stops throwing em green

  18. #118
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    Old post I know, but still relevant. Didn't big oil already buy into the Ethanol market? That's why prices are up? Yes, I remember the GM 1-EV. What does that tell you? When you can't own a car that runs so well with electric power? Why suppress a great car? We're getting screwed by the man. We went to the Moon, created Nuclear power plants, shrank computers to fit on a desk, etc of course there are alternatives that work. ICE technology is 100 years old. What if our LS1 cars were taken away? When gas goes up, most everything goes up. How do goods get to you? By those tractor trailers that cost big $ in fuel. The solution I believe, lies with us. Nice to see people who take initiative. Unfortunately others complain that this or that will NOT work. At least we can try. We can't succeed without many failed attempts. Just my thoughts. My hat goes off to those of you who are running alternative fuels.
    Last edited by TedsB4Csled; 07-20-2008 at 02:46 PM. Reason: spell

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedsB4Csled View Post
    Old post I know, but still relevant. Didn't big oil already buy into the Ethanol market? That's why prices are up? Yes, I remember the GM 1-EV. What does that tell you? When you can't own a car that runs so well with electric power? Why suppress a great car? We're getting screwed by the man. We went to the Moon, created Nuclear power plants, shrank computers to fit on a desk, etc of course there are alternatives that work. ICE technology is 100 years old. What if our LS1 cars were taken away? When gas goes up, most everything goes up. How do goods get to you? By those tractor trailers that cost big $ in fuel. The solution I believe, lies with us. Nice to see people who take initiative. Unfortunately others complain that this or that will NOT work. At least we can try. We can't succeed without many failed attempts. Just my thoughts. My hat goes off to those of you who are running alternative fuels.
    that's the sad thing....im one of those truck drivers.
    just think how much goofs prices could drop if we had an alternative to $5 gallon fuel for our trucks.....my truck gets 5.8 miles per gallon if anyone is curious.
    just add every penny it costs to run this truck 600 miles a day to your and my grocery bill.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark21742 View Post
    that's the sad thing....im one of those truck drivers.
    just think how much goofs prices could drop if we had an alternative to $5 gallon fuel for our trucks.....my truck gets 5.8 miles per gallon if anyone is curious.
    just add every penny it costs to run this truck 600 miles a day to your and my grocery bill.
    5.8 miles! Ouch!

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