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how to get rid of the ''muscle car'' sound

This is a discussion on how to get rid of the ''muscle car'' sound within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Shermanator86 those aren't multi cam though, still push rod here are there lsx heads 32 Valve Cylinder ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shermanator86 View Post
    those aren't multi cam though, still push rod
    here are there lsx heads 32 Valve Cylinder Heads LSX Blocks 32VLSX Rocker Arms Pushrods $7,500
    You know I saw a 32-valve setup years ago that used one cam.. My only dislike was all the push rods they had..

    You had your normal push rod setup and then in the heads you had a much shorter set to move the second set of rockers..

    Imho for high rpms on a regular basis the cam/s needs to be on top of the valves..

    All that crap reciprocating(sp) @ high rpm's = trouble imho...

    Imho, they should come up with a setup like the LQ1, where there's a "blank" cam or intermediate shaft used to run the 4 OHC's or something like it..

    Oh wait NorthStar did..

    Imho one cam is just a huge limitation... Sure you can get a cam with different LSA and various grinds, durration, etc, etc..

    But with more cams you simply adjust the sprockets for desired LSA's (within reason) then tune accordingly..

    The less valve train mass the better...IMHO

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    Holy shit lol that's a lot of imho's in one post

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    I can not remember which book it was, but one that I have gave a pretty good history concerning the development of the LS1. Part of it came down to a test with between two identical cars prepped by the GM engineers. One was running an overhead valve V8 and the other a pushrod V8. They had a group of execs and others drive the cars and report on their perceptions. The pushrod V8 was the favored setup and that was what in part led to the development of the LS1 in that type of architecture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I can not remember which book it was, but one that I have gave a pretty good history concerning the development of the LS1. Part of it came down to a test with between two identical cars prepped by the GM engineers. One was running an overhead valve V8 and the other a pushrod V8. They had a group of execs and others drive the cars and report on their perceptions. The pushrod V8 was the favored setup and that was what in part led to the development of the LS1 in that type of architecture.
    Interesting. They chose right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I can not remember which book it was, but one that I have gave a pretty good history concerning the development of the LS1. Part of it came down to a test with between two identical cars prepped by the GM engineers. One was running an overhead valve V8 and the other a pushrod V8. They had a group of execs and others drive the cars and report on their perceptions. The pushrod V8 was the favored setup and that was what in part led to the development of the LS1 in that type of architecture.
    I've got that book too. GM showed everyone that you could still do it with pushrods and a single cam and whipped everyone's ass ever since. The technology that's in the LS1 is pretty incredible really. I'm not sure how you could make a better pushrod small block. It's efficient, makes great power, and is very durable even at high horsepower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I can not remember which book it was, but one that I have gave a pretty good history concerning the development of the LS1. Part of it came down to a test with between two identical cars prepped by the GM engineers. One was running an overhead valve V8 and the other a pushrod V8. They had a group of execs and others drive the cars and report on their perceptions. The pushrod V8 was the favored setup and that was what in part led to the development of the LS1 in that type of architecture.
    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    I've got that book too. GM showed everyone that you could still do it with pushrods and a single cam and whipped everyone's ass ever since. The technology that's in the LS1 is pretty incredible really. I'm not sure how you could make a better pushrod small block. It's efficient, makes great power, and is very durable even at high horsepower.
    That was what 15 years ago? Technologies have since headed in the DOHC dirrection significantly..

    It's a huge part of the DI 3.6L v6's tech.. Also a huge part of northstar tech..

    Also a huge reason your seeing LS1 numbers from a manifolded, N/A small displacement v6..

    First time I've ever heard the words "push rod" and "efficient" in the same sentance..

    Single cam, moves a lifter, then a push rod, then a rocker, then the valve.. Efficient? I'd have to say, no..

    DOHC/SOHC, cam/s dirrectly over valve stem, then pushes down on a lifter or rocker, moves value... Efficient? Yup...

    One intake valve per cylinder + offset spark = uneven burn..

    2 intake valves per cylinder + centered spark = more even burn = greater power, less displacement, more efficient..

    Cadilac is breaking the mold, take a look sometime.. Then imagine for a second an LS1 with DOHC..

    Most DOHC engines run comfortably on 87 octane aswell..
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-14-2011 at 06:54 AM.

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    aawww....this post wasnt in your honest opinion

    but what PAJeff said, is that GM initally tried the LS motor as a pushrod, and as an overheard cam, and liked the pushrod better

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I can not remember which book it was, but one that I have gave a pretty good history concerning the development of the LS1. Part of it came down to a test with between two identical cars prepped by the GM engineers. One was running an overhead valve V8 and the other a pushrod V8. They had a group of execs and others drive the cars and report on their perceptions. The pushrod V8 was the favored setup and that was what in part led to the development of the LS1 in that type of architecture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    Interesting. They chose right!
    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    I've got that book too. GM showed everyone that you could still do it with pushrods and a single cam and whipped everyone's ass ever since. The technology that's in the LS1 is pretty incredible really. I'm not sure how you could make a better pushrod small block. It's efficient, makes great power, and is very durable even at high horsepower.

    Right on guys, and it's 10 times cheaper to manufacture which kept the cars reasonably priced. No need to change something that has worked well for the last 60+ years. It works in Nascar and NHRA turning 9,000 + rpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikito View Post
    aawww....this post wasnt in your honest opinion

    but what PAJeff said, is that GM initally tried the LS motor as a pushrod, and as an overheard cam, and liked the pushrod better
    Have to be carefull and add (IMHO) to comments because some folks have thin skin..

    Sure push rod engines work, and have for a long time.. All fine and dandy..

    Especially if you like ping, driving in circles, and strait lines all the time..

    Just never gonna sound like a DOHC..
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-14-2011 at 05:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    That was what 15 years ago? Technologies have since headed in the DOHC dirrection significantly..

    It's a huge part of the DI 3.6L v6's tech.. Also a huge part of northstar tech..

    Also a huge reason your seeing LS1 numbers from a manifolded, N/A small displacement v6..
    I've driven the Direct Injection 3.6 300hp V6. Its slow, no torque. Caddy Northstar V8...also slow, no torque. MasterCraft tried the Northstar in its ski/wakeboard boats for a couple years but dropped that idea because they aren't torquey enough. Those are just bad "performance" examples/comparisons. And pushrod engine run on 87 octane too.
    I don't have anything against DOHC engines. They work great as race car engines in Formula One. But for the average Joe Hotrodder, the pushrod engine offers great power, less complexity, less cost(generally), I suspect less weight (one steel cam vs four steel cams among other things), etc.
    I can see this thread turning into a Pushrod vs. OHC engine arguement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlass View Post
    I've driven the Direct Injection 3.6 300hp V6. Its slow, no torque. Caddy Northstar V8...also slow, no torque. MasterCraft tried the Northstar in its ski/wakeboard boats for a couple years but dropped that idea because they aren't torquey enough. Those are just bad "performance" examples/comparisons. And pushrod engine run on 87 octane too.
    I don't have anything against DOHC engines. They work great as race car engines in Formula One. But for the average Joe Hotrodder, the pushrod engine offers great power, less complexity, less cost(generally), I suspect less weight (one steel cam vs four steel cams among other things), etc.
    I can see this thread turning into a Pushrod vs. OHC engine arguement.
    I understand what yall are sayin' sure.. But sounds like the OP wants DOHC sound from a pushrod engine..

    Best one can hope for if that's the case, is quieter really..

    Having 4-valves per cylinder gives a unique sound, unique intake sound, as well as a unique exhaust sound..

    Just can't get DOHC harmonics from a pushrod engine.. Nothing wrong with either configuration, just not possible..

    DOHC engines generally are designed for high rpm operation out of the box, and pushrod engines are generally designed for grunt down low..

    More a matter of what one likes than anything else.. With the right setup you can spin anything up over 8,000 rpm..

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    Go back and listen to the vette with 180 degree headers. To me that had more of a distinct sound to it that was nothing like anything posted in the thread to date. Proof that any engine can be made to sound the way you want if you have the money.
    Even the LT5 vette sounded like any other V8 to me.

    For me it has more to do with the firing order of the engine, the header design, the exhaust and muffler design, and dynamic compression ratio. Case in point, the older fox body 5.0's always sounded good, but park it next to a 3 or 4 valve over head cam mustang and they damn near sound the same to me, just like a ford. I hear either version going down the street and without looking you know it's a mustang, but you have to see it to determin the vintage.

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    ^^^ this is true cause I've owned foxes and 3 and 4 valve stangs Ans with good exhausts it's hard to distinguish the different motors

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    They sound distinctively different to me especially with less restrictive exhausts..

    A good example would be a Harley.. Many companies try to duplicate the sound many get close..

    To the unfamilier ear they do sound like a Harley, but every real Biker or someone whom spends a lot of time around Harleys knows the difference and hears the difference..

    Spending lots of time around DOHC engines has given me the same kind of ear for the difference..

    Weather it's a NorthStar, or Modular Ford I can hear the difference between a DOHC and a 2-valve no matter what exhaust they may run..

    But this is all an arguement for another day..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    They sound distinctively different to me especially with less restrictive exhausts..

    A good example would be a Harley.. Many companies try to duplicate the sound many get close..

    To the unfamilier ear they do sound like a Harley, but every real Biker or someone whom spends a lot of time around Harleys knows the difference and hears the difference..

    Spending lots of time around DOHC engines has given me the same kind of ear for the difference..

    Weather it's a NorthStar, or Modular Ford I can hear the difference between a DOHC and a 2-valve no matter what exhaust they may run..

    But this is all an arguement for another day..
    Well it sounds to me that you may just be the long lost ultimate Jedi of motors lol

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    Think of it as 2 different bands playing the same song..

    Even on the same equipment they sound different from one another..

    Best I can do to discribe it..

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSuperSport View Post
    Well it sounds to me that you may just be the long lost ultimate Jedi of motors lol

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    I would'nt go that far..

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    The pushrod motor sound is a love or hate relationship, either you love it or hate it, but nothing in my opinion sounds better than a cammed pushrod motor with open cutouts, it just screams American muscle

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