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How to choose the best spark plug. TECH

This is a discussion on How to choose the best spark plug. TECH within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Sarge SWRI found the same thing....I'll find their paper for you......but the conclusion was/is to properly gap ...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    SWRI found the same thing....I'll find their paper for you......but the conclusion was/is to properly gap your plug and more results were derived from tuning, plug gap and coil voltage than a plug design or material used to manufactuer.....yes many here run Iridium plugs....Your charts reflect a power to gap differential....in extremes that really do not translate to the LSX world......you will not get any questions nor arguments from me about the end results of "tuning" your gap....we all do..... .035 to .050 gaps deliver different results for sure....
    I enjoy these discussions very much and appreciate your time and effort to share.....
    I gotta go to a meeting ( lawyers suck) and will pick it up later this afteernoon....maybe get one of the engineers from SWRI to join in....
    I'll take a read if you have it but it won't hold much weight against the technical white papers from the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).
    Among them are the most brilliant engineers in the field as well as Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, Denso, Visteon etc. Trying to discredit these papers is like discrediting the people that make vehicles themselves.

    Go here and type in "spark plug"
    http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/


    These are the technical papers and documents we draw our information from. It's not from a third rate source that has an alternate motive. Some of our engineering principals were taken directly from white papers Denso themselves wrote and published.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    S..you will not get any questions nor arguments from me about the end results of "tuning" your gap....we all do..... .035 to .050 gaps deliver different results for sure.....
    Just to pick your brain on this a bit. You admit that opening the gap makes more power but in order to do this you need more energy to start the spark. If there is more available energy through the reduction of internal resistance (in essence a more efficient design) do you think you could open up the gap more reliably with a spark plug that has a 0ohm vs 5000ohm resistance?
    Last edited by WeaponX_Perf; 07-09-2008 at 08:11 AM.

  2. #22
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    What is your opinion on the spark plug wire debate in the sticky above? Is there a benefit to a "MSD" 40ohm wire compared to a stock 450ohm to a "zero" ohm wire?

  3. #23
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Mark....OK....I've been reading quite a bit...you have had some success and some failures.....Ford people mainly.....some gain nothing....some have spark blowout and some report "gains".....you seem like a stand up engineer.....your a start up company for sure (Inc. 2002)....Your a foreign ( Not USA) company.....you went after the Ford aftermarket via Internet forums ( which seems to be the marketing channel of choice) ....you outsource the manufacturing and quality control....basically your company is a consultancy....you make claims on your website of back to back dyno runs but offer no data from those runs............no data on the dyno type/location/car nothing. You give no guarantees of RWHP or MPG gains but make these claims often and freely....your company is not a member of the US BBB.....you offer no address for your company on your website...If I dont receive any gains do I get my money back? In US Dollars?
    Last edited by Sarge; 07-09-2008 at 12:33 PM.

  4. #24
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeaponX_Perf View Post
    I'll take a read if you have it but it won't hold much weight against the technical white papers from the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).
    Among them are the most brilliant engineers in the field as well as Ford, GM, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, Denso, Visteon etc. Trying to discredit these papers is like discrediting the people that make vehicles themselves.

    Go here and type in "spark plug"
    http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/


    These are the technical papers and documents we draw our information from. It's not from a third rate source that has an alternate motive. Some of our engineering principals were taken directly from white papers Denso themselves wrote and published.



    Just to pick your brain on this a bit. You admit that opening the gap makes more power but in order to do this you need more energy to start the spark. If there is more available energy through the reduction of internal resistance (in essence a more efficient design) do you think you could open up the gap more reliably with a spark plug that has a 0ohm vs 5000ohm resistance?
    Unreal....your calling Southwest Research Institute a "third rate source" with an "alternative motive"...are you crazy?!!! What slim credibility you had is now totally gone. I think you and your company is full of shit.

  5. #25
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Well I'll be damned....few weeks ago we all of a sudden get this guy posting about this wonderful new company.....pimps the shit out of your company and gets his head handed to him......look what I see....you two guys have the exact same IP address....
    Walk me through the coincidence of this one Mark.

  6. #26
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    I'm sorry....I meant to say "are" full of shit....and I said "is"....my bad. Troll.

  7. #27
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    I have a few questions, though.

    Ohm's law is not really applicable on a spark plug, the theory of electrostatics and Coulomb's law would be more appropriate.
    Basics on a spark plug is on the stated above... you have electrically charged plates with a given distance from one another (gap).
    Now, by increasing the voltage difference, you will reach a point where the attraction on the charged particles will exceed a threshold, and charges will jump from one side to the other, creating the spark.

    Now, if you increase the gap, it takes more potential (voltage) for the spark to occur... the reverse is also true.

    As for the internal resistance in the spark plug, it would limit the amount of current flying through the spark plug when in "spark" mode... ie when the voltage is big enough to cause the spark. (Remember that when no spark, there is no current, it's an open circuit).

    Now let's consider the closed circuit when "in-spark".
    With a 0ohm equivalent resistance, the whole charge would dissipate very fast, but stronger... a higher resistance will limit the current and make the spark last longer... yet the spark won't be as strong.

    Now the questions:

    1. Given that I have a certain amount of fuel and air in the combustion chamber, based on the car tuning... all being equal, for burning fuel, which is more efficient @ burning more fuel... shorter-time/more intense-spark or vice-versa ?

    2. Can't the same result be achieved with changing the gap parameters ?

    3. Let's assume the new spark plug actually burns fuel more efficiently, which means that it would increase the A/F ratio... which means I would have to retune the car with more fuel so I don't run too lean... if that is the case, then I can see where I can get more hp, because it's burning way more efficiently... but that can't be achieved with simply a dyno pull. That means I need to tune on the new plugs.

    Let's say this is the case, and the spark plugs do that... which is a good thing for the product, actually... that means I should be careful on just putting those plugs and running WOT, cause if they are more efficient, my A/F is higher and I'm running leaner... I need to tune, and I can see getting some more power by running lean, but not a position I would want to be in ... if anything, I can add more fuel and still have a bit more power and feel better with the given A/F ratio.

    4. have you seen that comparing back to back, by simply changing plugs that the A/F will increase ?... and by which extent ? This should give a good indication on the gains one could achieve with the "improved" plugs if they do as claimed.

    I'm not bashing, but as an Electrical Engineer I still have some unanswered questions that I would like to be answered with some credibility, not with confusing and inconsistant nomenclature, mixing power, potential, current, as stated previously.
    Eugenio_SS
    almost stock triple-black 2000 SS convertible with 17x11s on all 4 w/ 315s at the track or on the street with 18x10.5s on all 4 w/ 315s: (1), (2)

  8. #28
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    I couldnt find the products... and after reading all of this I dont understand how these things will actually help. I ran a bunch of plugs through my truck a few years ago and the most expensive multiprong high quality/spark plugs gave me a smoother idle...and that was about it. They fouled easier... plus rapped my wallet.

    Im sticking with the old farts on this one(sorry)

  9. #29
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    great read lot of info

  10. #30
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    redirect all comments and questions in this thread
    Spark plug tech information and understanding them

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