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Dif Between Mid-Tube and Shorty

This is a discussion on Dif Between Mid-Tube and Shorty within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Okay, I've been reading up on this thread (and similar ones) for a while. Apparently a lot of you are ...

  1. #41
    Member cobrahunter's Avatar
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    Okay, I've been reading up on this thread (and similar ones) for a while. Apparently a lot of you are not familiar with CA's strict emissions laws, and this is what I've found.

    None of the speed shops in my area will install a set of long-tubes on my vehicle; the will order them, but they won't put them on. I've been to a number of smog testing locations around my area, and none of them will inspect my vehicle if I throw on a set of long-tubes. All of them did that stupid visual inspection crap. ANY relocating/modification to the cat converters is illegal. My car is lowered quite a bit, but one of the first things the guys did during my last smog test was try and squeez their heads under the car and look underneath. So my congrats to all those who dont' have to deal with visual inspections...I'm not about to go to another state to have long-tubes put on, and then have to do deal with trying to find someone somewhere who'll smog my car.

    By the way, with just the Whisper hi-flow lid, Fast Toys Ram Air, HHP, and JBA shorties, my car dyno'd 335rwhp; that's about 375-380 at the engine. Sure the shorties didn't give me the HP a set of long-tubes would have, but for me, where I live, it's... just...not...an...option. Plus, I've added some other goodies that have added HP to my engine output.

  2. #42
    True Duals BIATCH! rosco924's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrahunter View Post
    Okay, I've been reading up on this thread (and similar ones) for a while. Apparently a lot of you are not familiar with CA's strict emissions laws, and this is what I've found.

    None of the speed shops in my area will install a set of long-tubes on my vehicle; the will order them, but they won't put them on. I've been to a number of smog testing locations around my area, and none of them will inspect my vehicle if I throw on a set of long-tubes. All of them did that stupid visual inspection crap. ANY relocating/modification to the cat converters is illegal. My car is lowered quite a bit, but one of the first things the guys did during my last smog test was try and squeez their heads under the car and look underneath. So my congrats to all those who dont' have to deal with visual inspections...I'm not about to go to another state to have long-tubes put on, and then have to do deal with trying to find someone somewhere who'll smog my car.

    By the way, with just the Whisper hi-flow lid, Fast Toys Ram Air, HHP, and JBA shorties, my car dyno'd 335rwhp; that's about 375-380 at the engine. Sure the shorties didn't give me the HP a set of long-tubes would have, but for me, where I live, it's... just...not...an...option. Plus, I've added some other goodies that have added HP to my engine output.

    I didn't know CA did a visual inspection . Thanks for the info you just saved me alot of time and money!

  3. #43
    Member cobrahunter's Avatar
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    Just an FYI, this is just what I've come across. Check with your local speedshops, if possible. If they tell you they can't/won't install the long-pipes, it's probably a pretty good bet that the local smog shops are gonna do that visual inspection. And again, shorties aren't going to give you the gains a set of long-tubes will, but they definately flow better than the stockers, especially if you start making more HP. And since shorties were my only option around here, the increase in HP I got was worth it.

  4. #44
    Junior Member shabysurf's Avatar
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    f*** emissions, plus dynatech makes a killer lt header & y-pipe set up w/ high flow cats, and they claim that it is emissions complient, plus it's a direct bolt on to your existing cat back, did I mention all stainless steel mandrel bent, I'm pickin a pair up for my truck, but they make a killer set up for f bodies, although not sure about ground clearance

    dynatechheaders.com

    oh ya, most cats are located farther down the collector pipe, it looks like my cats are in the same place as the kit for my truck, not sure as to the f bodies, as I dont own one, would love to once I'm older, but only 18, and dont have that option yet, need truck
    Last edited by shabysurf; 11-23-2006 at 09:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrahunter View Post
    ANY relocating/modification to the cat converters is illegal.
    This sums it up well. The only people who can use (true) mid or LTs are those who don't have their car tested, have no emission testing in their locale or where they do not CHECK for catalytic converter location. Although the true mid and long lengths do not get flagged, they are still not legal and if I were to buy the car and have it e-checked, I would not be able to get the car licensed here.

    By the way, with just the Whisper hi-flow lid, Fast Toys Ram Air, HHP, and JBA shorties, my car dyno'd 335rwhp; that's about 375-380 at the engine. Sure the shorties didn't give me the HP a set of long-tubes would have, but for me, where I live, it's... just...not...an...option. Plus, I've added some other goodies that have added HP to my engine output.
    This is how it worked for me. I contacted Pace Setter and their tech support was very honest. They told me their short tubes would net 8 to 16 horsepower and advised me to get long tubes (which I can't do). I'm staying with my old, heavy manifold and spend the $400 on a nitrous core kit.

    BTW, correct me if I'm wrong but 335 rwhp should be 394.1 crank hp. My math is thus: 335 / .85 .. This is the equation I was told to use when the rear wheel hp figure is known. It is a 15% loss for the M6 and 20% for the A4.

    Thanks to 89LX for starting the thread and the comparison pictures of the stock manifold against the Pacesetter mid tubes and sorry to lose the topic...

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    You don't know what you're talking about. Long tubes and mids are illegal in all 50 states. It's against federal laws to move the catalytic converters from their stock location. Lt's and mids both move the cats further down the exhaust. While it's easy to pass OBDII emissions with lt's and mids (done it twice myself) some places like Cali do a strict visual exam making it impossible to pass with these set ups.
    What he said INMYO!

  7. #47
    Member 89LX's Avatar
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    Made a Difference for Sure

    I won't be able to get my car on the Dyno until after the first of the year (for the first time). I don't know what the Shorties made but the engine winds up much faster in 1st-3rd evident in how soon the shift light is coming on now. Different sound all together when you let off the throttle after WOT. Thought I might have leaks with all the popping but do not (put it in the air). I guess it is a back pressure drop thing over stock.
    2000 Z28 M6, SLP Lid, SLP Bellows, SLP UD,
    P&P Maf, TB By-Pass, PS Shorties, LS6 Intake, FAST 78mm TB, Hooker CB, Hurst Billet, Front Tower Brace, small 218/218....527/527....114 cam.
    337rwhp/348rwtq

  8. #48
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    I would think you would notice a power difference if you're getting the upper range of increase. Also, the difference between metal tubes and a heavy cast manifold would certainly change the under hood sounds. As for the exhaust pop, that is the sound my slp catback introduced so I would think you're hearing the relieved pressure. Combined with the good looks of those headers, I don't think you made a mistake by going with them. It's a lot if all you netted was the minimum power gain but with all things together, it's still something I would like to think about in the future. I have #243 heads and LS6 cam sitting here ready to go on the car. I had intentions of buying those headers.

    When I talked with a tech support person at Pace Setter, he told me I would need to have a small section (supplied) to be welded in place. I would need to put the headers up and tack the small section on the passenger side, take them down assembled and then weld it up properly. Is this what you did?

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