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Dif Between Mid-Tube and Shorty

This is a discussion on Dif Between Mid-Tube and Shorty within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by INMY01TA How do you put a cat in the middle of a long tube header Einstien? WTF ...

  1. #21
    Pathelogical Liar BlackLT1Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    How do you put a cat in the middle of a long tube header Einstien?
    WTF are you talking about? Cats sit on the y-pipe, not exhaust manifold. Why would the cars have to be on the header? Do they sit further up on an LS1 car than LT1 car?

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    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLT1Z28 View Post
    WTF are you talking about? Cats sit on the y-pipe, not exhaust manifold. Why would the cars have to be on the header? Do they sit further up on an LS1 car than LT1 car?
    My bad. Yes on the LS1 cars they sit right under the exhaust manifolds up in the engine compartment where a long tube would be. Can't even see them looking under the car.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    In all honesty, if you're going to go through all the trouble to change the exhaust manifolds on an LS1, just get long tubes. If you get shorties or mids you'll end up wishing you just got long tubes in the first place.

    Most LT's are available with emmissions provisions as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    You don't know what you're talking about. Long tubes and mids are illegal in all 50 states. It's against federal laws to move the catalytic converters from their stock location. Lt's and mids both move the cats further down the exhaust. While it's easy to pass OBDII emissions with lt's and mids (done it twice myself) some places like Cali do a strict visual exam making it impossible to pass with these set ups.
    smart man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    In all honesty, if you're going to go through all the trouble to change the exhaust manifolds on an LS1, just get long tubes. If you get shorties or mids you'll end up wishing you just got long tubes in the first place.

    Most LT's are available with emmissions provisions as well.
    Emissions provisions doesn't make mids or longs smog legal...like someone said earlier moving the cats (which is required for LT's and mids) is not legal.

    Shorties are a good appearance mod and do show small gains especially before the manifold redesign in 00...nothing compared to LT's but 5-10 rwhp depending on other mods

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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Swami View Post
    This is from Pacesetter's website:

    "All headers use 3/8", CNC-machined flanges, mandrel-bent 16-gauge steel tubing and include all gaskets, hardware and tubing necessary to install and connect to stock catalytic converter."

    I emailed them just in case, but it looks like I'm gonna start saving up!
    That's because they're shorties....look at the pic I posted on the first page

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    Pathelogical Liar BlackLT1Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    My bad. Yes on the LS1 cars they sit right under the exhaust manifolds up in the engine compartment where a long tube would be. Can't even see them looking under the car.
    Ok, that makes more sense. I haven't worked on too many LS1's...yet...

  8. #28
    Member 94 Formula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLT1Z28 View Post
    Shorties - don't require a new Y-pipe
    Mids and LT's - DO REQUIRE a new y-pipe.

    And pacesetter does make LT's that ARE EMISSIONS LEGAL. They come with EGR and AIR fittings to keep emissions. The only thing you have to do is weld up a cat on the y-pipe. Any muffler shop can do that.
    Nothing personal, but I'm just tired of people bitching about emissions and having to get shorties. If you do your research, companies do make mids and LT's that are emissons legal. SLP makes their LS1 headers emissions legal, so does pacesetter and QTP.
    No LT will ever be emissions legal.

    You move placement of the cats.

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    Pathelogical Liar BlackLT1Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94 Formula View Post
    No LT will ever be emissions legal.

    You move placement of the cats.
    Visually, this is true, but they can pass the sniff test.

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    Member 89LX's Avatar
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    Yip... they are Shorties

    I received the headers that they were advertizing on EBay as Mid Tube headers ad read "These are PaceSetter’s MID-Tube Ceramic Coated Headers". They are in fact Shorty Headers. In their defense and in the small print further down they called them Shorty headers. My bust but am going to install them regardless. Wish I had a base line and I would let you know what they make in gain. I will however dyno anyway and report back and include the other bolt-ons. We shall see.....
    2000 Z28 M6, SLP Lid, SLP Bellows, SLP UD,
    P&P Maf, TB By-Pass, PS Shorties, LS6 Intake, FAST 78mm TB, Hooker CB, Hurst Billet, Front Tower Brace, small 218/218....527/527....114 cam.
    337rwhp/348rwtq

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89LX View Post
    I received the headers that they were advertizing on EBay as Mid Tube headers ad read "These are PaceSetter’s MID-Tube Ceramic Coated Headers". They are in fact Shorty Headers. In their defense and in the small print further down they called them Shorty headers. My bust but am going to install them regardless. Wish I had a base line and I would let you know what they make in gain. I will however dyno anyway and report back and include the other bolt-ons. We shall see.....
    The stock manifolds on the LS1 look like they are almost shorties anyway, so I'd think they flow almost as well as shorties. Doesn't seem worth the trouble for the small gains, like I said above, go big (longtubes ) or go home.

    If I recall correctly, the stock LS1 manifolds are also stainless steel as well, which is a nice benefit over most aftermarket shorties.

  12. #32
    Member 89LX's Avatar
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    PaceSetter Shorties

    I finally removed the stock headers. They weigh approx. 12 lbs each. The PaceSetters weigh in at 7 lbs a piece. The exhaust tubes are routed slightly different and both are steel.
    Last edited by 89LX; 02-07-2007 at 03:51 PM.

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    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89LX View Post
    I finally removed the stock headers. They weigh approx. 12 lbs each. The PaceSetters weigh in at 7 lbs a piece. The exhaust tubes are routed slightly different and both are steel.
    How much of gain do you think you got?? Were they worth the money over just keeping the stockers?? I'm curious, because they don't seem like a drastic difference in design.

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    Member 89LX's Avatar
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    The runners are longer as seen in the picture. I didn't have a base line but plan to put it on after installed. I will post what the mods (in my signature) net to include the headers after the dyno run.
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    Last edited by 89LX; 10-19-2006 at 05:48 PM. Reason: no signature

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    38 of 139 PontiacFan's Avatar
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    Examples, Note the length of the new head pipes in each auction.

    Shorties, ..., (Even tho the one auction states 'mid', ..., they are really considered shorties.) Shorties, as mentioned, simply replace on the factory cast iron exhaust manifold.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAC-H...QQcmdZViewItem
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevy...QQcmdZViewItem
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-02...QQcmdZViewItem

    Mid-Length, ..., Will require either moving, or removing, the cats original location.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MAC-H...QQcmdZViewItem
    Mac does offer the same layout, with the additional cats, one in each side of the y-pipe.

    Long Tubes, ..., is there really any explanation necessary?!?
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HEADE...QQcmdZViewItem
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LS1-P...QQcmdZViewItem


    These are simple, quick, easy representations of each style to help people understand what the terms are referring to.

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    Member 89LX's Avatar
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    Right-on

    Good job for "show and tell".

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    Where are the dyno numbers!!!!???? After 2 pages of this shit, I really want to know.

    Yeah, they dont look that different in design. Look better though and it looks like the bolt pattern wont line up directly to the y-pipe/converters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    My bad. Yes on the LS1 cars they sit right under the exhaust manifolds up in the engine compartment where a long tube would be. Can't even see them looking under the car.
    Hmm....I can see mine from underneath. Goes stock exhaust manifold, cats, then POS Y-pipe. You are right though, they would be right where the LT would be. Never noticed that before. Good thing I won't be running cats with my LT's when I get em.

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    Mid tubes are simply that mid length between long and shorties. Some companies don't truly have a mid and a shorty such as pacesetter. The best mids I have seen are made by heddman. You can get them from jet hot with two coats ceramic with a lifetime warranty for around 400.00.

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    got my MAC mid lengths today

    I choose to run the MAC midlengths cause I have my 01 SS riding on eibach sportlines, (dropped 2"). I was told that shorties were just a waste of time unless looking for engine dress up, well I was looking for something that was gonna net some power but not get snagged up at every speed bump. Although not installed or tested yet I will keep in up date on a lowered SS with mid length header platform Here are some low res pics that my bro sent me, seeing that I am 3000 miles away from my car
    copy and paste srry!
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    Last edited by 85usmcsnyper41; 11-11-2006 at 12:10 AM.

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