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Did you notice a difference with your K&N?

This is a discussion on Did you notice a difference with your K&N? within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Mr.Lee hey guys, it's hard for me to get a stock air filter up here in canada ...

  1. #61
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Lee View Post
    hey guys,

    it's hard for me to get a stock air filter up here in canada for my ws6 so i just bought a k and n since it's rechargeable and lifetime and blah blah,
    no performance gain.....with the free ram air mod, it's gets dirty really quick however...

    I took a blow dryer and blew air throught stock air filter with a piece of paper on the other side, and no air contacted the piece of paper, ( the paper didn't even move) it was like if the stock air filter was a wall to the blow dryer, now i used with k and n and did the same experiment, and air did go through cause the paper on the air side was flapping noticeably.
    Most likely due to the overly porous nature of the K@N filter (meaning more air/more dirt).. Now try your experiment with a vacuum.. The results will be near identical between the two filters.. An engine exserts vacuum on the filter never blows through it..
    Last edited by Smittro; 11-21-2009 at 09:04 PM.
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    Just thought I'd mention was doing a few maintenance checks.. I checked my K&N and WOW... with the free ram air mod I have grit on 1/4 of the filter where the air comes through the rad shroud like half an inch deep. the filter is super duper filthy !! I never expected it to get so filled up but then again I'm in a new home so there's still construction everywhere. I can't find my cleaner/charger kit so I'll be grabbing a Napa filter tomorrow.

    ANyone have part #s for all these other brands?

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    Member supercopone's Avatar
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    Having that much dirt on the filter is a good thing.

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    I would imagine so But how much has got past I'll never know. I usually buy K&Ns for my cars since I can't really force myself to like a paper filter but For once I'm going to try something that is supposed to filter better.

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    Member herculesrider1's Avatar
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    From what I've read, the oil filtration media was suppose to be the "media of choice" and the more dirt on the filter was suppose to be better from a filtration standpoint. But, the above post is so very true. The more air allowed through the filter, the more dirt, sand, grime will be allowed as well, and we all know what that does to our oil, rings, guides..... I doubt the extra flow in cfm's would outweigh the gain in horsepower. Think about it, if you could see the paper fluttering on the other side of the K&N, we are sacrificing clean air going into our engines for such minimal horsepower gains.....is it worth it?

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    Member vette0009's Avatar
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    Did you notice a difference with your K&N

    http://www.koolblue.com/catalog_c285676.html



    SKIP the oil treatment and wash it with soap and warm water or Pitch it and get another one when it's done
    I mean for Less than $20 , And NO you will not see a performance gain unless your current filter is seriously loaded up with dirt and debris

    Bon

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    Been reading all of the complaints on KN filters in this thread and the talk of dirty engine oil. I change my oil religiously and have noticed it being black early also. My Z28 is mostly stock do you think that I should bother with the Amsoil filter or just go down to Napa tomorrow and buy their paper filter? In my truck (98 Chevy L31 5.7) I have an Airaid intake which has a kn on it. Again, the oil is black as hell. Can I get an Amsoil filter for that one or do I have to go back to the stock air box setup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lmyers1 View Post
    Been reading all of the complaints on KN filters in this thread and the talk of dirty engine oil. I change my oil religiously and have noticed it being black early also. My Z28 is mostly stock do you think that I should bother with the Amsoil filter or just go down to Napa tomorrow and buy their paper filter? In my truck (98 Chevy L31 5.7) I have an Airaid intake which has a kn on it. Again, the oil is black as hell. Can I get an Amsoil filter for that one or do I have to go back to the stock air box setup?
    Either choice would be better than what you have now. You can search "Ea Filter" on the Amsoil website and it'll show you what they have.

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    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Okay guys I'm gonna try to put this to bed here..

    1. This is a lighty oiled K&N filter for my 01 Camaro.. I went through the trouble of cleaning it just for this thread even though I'll never use it again..



    2. I held it up to one of my fluoresant(sp) shop lights. Notice the holes where light is clearly passing through the filter. Looks like large pin holes..


    3. This is another angle without the flash.. Same light source..


    4. This is the filter in front of a plain incondesant (naked) bulb... Yeah the holes are where the big particles are getting into your oil..


    Any questions?............
    Last edited by Smittro; 11-22-2009 at 07:24 PM.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by lmyers1 View Post
    Been reading all of the complaints on KN filters in this thread and the talk of dirty engine oil. I change my oil religiously and have noticed it being black early also. My Z28 is mostly stock do you think that I should bother with the Amsoil filter or just go down to Napa tomorrow and buy their paper filter? In my truck (98 Chevy L31 5.7) I have an Airaid intake which has a kn on it. Again, the oil is black as hell. Can I get an Amsoil filter for that one or do I have to go back to the stock air box setup?
    You can get the part number off the K&N filter for your Airaid intake and we can cross it to an Amsoil dry cell EA induction style air filter...

    Shouldn't be a problem.

    Send me a PM if you'd like assistance with that.

    CompSyn

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    Member vette0009's Avatar
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    Did you notice a difference with your K&n

    Hmmmm interesting Discussion
    Glad I dropped in,
    I always learn alot here
    I would be willing to try a paper filter,
    Just don't know where to buy one for my Boxx
    This is what I have in there now



    Where can you get a paper filter for a VaraRam ?

    I also considered using a sponge filter using the frame from this filter,

    It'd be super easy to clean and would get the Job done right


    Bon

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    There are a lot of other brands out there that are supposed to filter better. I did alot of reading and sorting through bs over the last few days trying to dig deeper and here is the conclusion that I came to :

    1. I live in a new subdivision = lots of dust. K&N = bad. If I'm not racing every day or need that extra 2 hp I personally dont feel its worth the tradeoff in filtration.

    2. On a Naturally aspirated engine the gains are just not worth the risk of allowing fine dirt/dust in your engine. On a forced engine or high rpm engine where the demand/pressure is higher a K&N may make quite a difference.

    3. Pick your tradeoff. If you need the few hp and aren't worried about dirt/dust go for it. If you want long life perhaps sticking with paper is the best bet.


    For my Vette I use a Green filter and will continue to do so unless I can get another reputed brand to convince me that there is a filter that can flow a lot of air and stil do a decent job filtering.

    For the Z I will post pictures tomorrow of my K&N. Not putting K&N down by any means. The filter is dirty and just wanted to share how much dirt can accumulate in <20k km. I was quite shocked. The good thing was the back side of the K&N was pink as can be.. kind of like... oh never mind .
    I am leanin towards just putting in a paper filter for the entire winter season when I put the snows on my Z. I mean do I really care about a few hp when the weather is crap? NO.

  13. #73
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Napa paper filter > K&N

    As seen on countless dynos around the land..

    Just want to this to go back to the end of the thread since it may not have been read...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Just want to this to go back to the end of the thread since it may not have been read...
    I find that hard to believe jusyt being honest. is the napa filter a direct stock replacement? It filters better AND makes more power? If its true K&N would be out of business no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    I find that hard to believe jusyt being honest. is the napa filter a direct stock replacement? It filters better AND makes more power? If its true K&N would be out of business no?
    Thats what Im saying, if they were this crappy....why does mags like super chevy and others say to use them. We need someone from K&N to come one here and inform us on this. What your saying is Nascar, Super Chevy, NHRA and others dont know shit. I want to see some dyno sheets and other proof. I pulled my MAF off and checked it for oil, it was dry.....and the oil being black, show me some one with clean/clear oil when they change it. Oil turns brown from friction and heat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    I find that hard to believe jusyt being honest. is the napa filter a direct stock replacement? It filters better AND makes more power? If its true K&N would be out of business no?
    I'm not lying, and I don't sell either one of them or get ANY type of compenstaion. I have no hidden agenda, I am just trying to help the users of this site realize the best returns for their money, and the K&N does not generate a return in the HP department for the GenIII F-bodies.

    As for whether or not they would still be in business; the makers of the Tornado are still: http://www.tornadoair.com/buy1/ and that thing has been REPEATEDLY proven worthless. K&N's marketing is good... Look in this very thread, there is a user here (actually more than one now) arguing tech based on an advertisement. This is not a reflection of him; many other people will read it and believe the same even though it's nothing at all but hype... It is crazy to me. You guys would believe the ad over what I have seen MANY times on the dyno because you are clinging to hope that it is doing you some good on your own cars. That's not a logical response, it's an emotional response (like this: Did you notice a difference with your K&N?).

    My posts aren't really for anyone in this thread, they are for the readers that wander in looking for experience and numbers. They are not to change you guys' minds about what you are or are not running.

    Best of luck.

  17. #77
    Member supercopone's Avatar
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    ok I called K&N and asked them to come on the site and answer some questions....Lets see if they show up. I spoke to a lady by the name of Dena D, and she was cool as hell and said she would see what they could do. Now someone needs to get someone from napa to get on here.

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    btw Im sure we can get a mod to confirm if they are realy who they say they are.

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    You know, there are a lot of sites on this thread that portray one brand over the other. Opinions are great, but I for one, now, want concrete, documentable facts. This is a very important issue we have come upon and I think, here again, in my humble opinion, we should look at an independent, unbiased test that was run with measurements, volumes, cfm's, etc across the board. Not a test run or sponsored by Amsoil, or K&N, or Fram, but one that is truly done from a 'seeking the truth' stance. Look at this site and tell me if that is what is shown:

    http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

    Seems to me after looking at this extensive test, it's a hands down testament to paper filters being superior to K&N....99% efficient paper, 96% efficient K&N. Paper allowed .4 gms of dirt through, K&N allowed 7gms????? Not point seven grams, but SEVEN grams.....17.5 times more dirt through the K&N than through a paper filter and that is just two of the tests run by the Duramax Diesel site. Look at the site. Study the posted figures. Look at the differences in % from paper to K&N. For some reason, it seemed like paper was always on one end and K&N was at the opposite end.
    I have been running K&N for 12 years. I obviously was a die hard supporter, but ONLY because I believed what K&N reported as factual, when in essence, was nothing more than slick advertising which prayed on the uninformed, namely ME. One thing K&N does do, and that is to allow MORE airflow through the filter, but along with increased airflow, comes increased fine particulates, as proven by the amount in grams of dirt allowed to pass through the K&N filter. Look at the "Accumulative Gain" chart in the above website. Look at "Filter Efficiency" in the chart... Paper filter = 99.9%. K&N filter = 96.8%. To me, this documentation lays it out in black and white. Question is: Do you believe or not? I chose to believe based on an unbiased, unsponsored, unpaid test run by someone who neither was promoting or advertising for any of the companies taking part in the tests. Here again, my opinion.

  20. #80

    Lightbulb K&Ns and dirt...

    Regarding the ability for K&N air filters to filter out fine dust particles:

    Introduction: The late George Morrison, was a Certified Lubrication Specialist by the Society of Trobologists and Lubrication Engineers as well as the founder and CEO of AV Lubricants, one of the largest Exxon/Mobil distributors in the United States. During his 35 years in the lubricant industry, He worked with such industries as Aviation and Coal Mining assisting with their specific lubricant needs in which hundreds of Used Oil Analysis reports went through his hands a day. As a result, Mr. Morrison was an expert in lubricant and lubricant filtration.

    Quotes by Mr. Morrison:

    "From a lube engineer's perspective that looks at a hundred or so oil analysis results a day, I would highly recommend you or anyone running a K&N or other aftermarket air filter do an engine oil analysis to determine that the filter is indeed doing its job. I can easily spot a K&N equipped vehicle oil analysis results as in 90% of cases the filter keeps out bricks and birds very effectively but little else. The #1 cause of reduced engine life is dirt. The #1 engine oil alert I look at is dirt. One teaspoon of dirt will destroy a large V-16 CAT engine.. i.e. we need to make sure we have the best filter media, tightest induction system possible to ensure maximum engine life. If you look at a K&N filter you can see through the medium very easily. Supposedly the 'tackifier' grabs the incoming dirt particles. Visualize a dirt particle approaching the filter medium at 100+ MPH: there is NO oil, no tackifier that is going to reach out and capture that particle. Filter face impact velocity is just too great." Cited: George Morrison - link

    "Regarding the "easy 10 hp increase", I would be wary of the claim. A recent VW TDI dyno day revealed that the highest horsepower developed at the rear wheels was for a TDI equipped a paper, OEM equipped VW vs. the foam/paper/K&N, snorkled VW's." Cited: George Morrison - link


    "If you have single digit silicon and low wear metals with your oil analysis results, you are about as good as it gets! That is a general target for dirt: i.e. single digits. If you have this with spectro, you have excellent air filtration with no induction leaks. As for recommendations, I suggest name brand/OEM paper. If a person wants to try another, do an oil analysis with quality paper, then another oil analysis, with particle count, for the aftermarket. This will give a complete picture of exactly how the aftermarket is doing." George Morrison - link


    Summary: As stated above, Used Oil Analysis is the real world test which proves OR disproves the as advertised filter efficiency claims.

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