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The Complete (Hopefully) Header Thread

This is a discussion on The Complete (Hopefully) Header Thread within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; It seems header threads are the most common thread here. Usually its always a few of the same questions. Which ...

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    Veteran Hi-Po's Avatar
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    Post The Complete (Hopefully) Header Thread

    It seems header threads are the most common thread here. Usually its always a few of the same questions. Which is totally fine guys. We all started somewhere and everyone understands saving money is a good thing. I'm going to list as many header companies, prices, sizes, off road Y Pipes, exhaust systems, flaws, perks, ideas as I can. Hopefully we can get this thread to have as much information about this very common question. If anyone has anything to add, please follow the format used here already.

    Brand|Price|Header ID Size|Type of steel|Length|Pass Emissions|ORY Include
    FlowTech - $249.99 - 1 3/4 - Black Painted - Full - No - No
    Flow Tech - $499.99 - 1 3/4 - Ceramic Coated - Full - No - No

    JBA - $683.99 - 1 5/8 - None - Shorty - Yes - No
    JBA - $858.99 - 1 5/8 - Ceramic - Shorty - Yes - No

    Edelbrock - 568.00 - 1 5/8 - Ceramic - Shorty - Yes - No

    BBK - $299.99 - 1 3/4 - Chrome - Shorty - Yes - No
    BBK - $399.99 - 1 3/4 - Ceramic - Shorty - Yes - No
    BBK - $499.99 - 1 3/4 - Ceramic - Full - No - No
    BBK - $369.99 - 1 3/4 - Chrome - Full - No - No

    OBX - $325.00 - 1 3/4" - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    MAC - $549.99 - 1 3/4 - Painted - Full - No - Yes
    MAC - $700.00 - 1 3/4 - Coated - Full - No - Yes

    QTP - $734.00 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No
    QTP - $810.99 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    Stainless Works - $1175.49 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - Yes
    Stainless Works - $1559.47 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - Yes - With Cats

    Kooks - $959.99 - 1 3/4 or 1/7/8 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No
    Kooks - $1079.99 - 1 7/8 stepped - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    LPP - $450.00 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    Hooker - $399.99 - 1 3/4 - Painted - Full - No - No
    Hooker - $499.99 - 1 3/4 - Ceramic - Full - No - No
    Hooker - $699.99 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No
    Hooker - $599.99 - 1 7/8 - Painted - Full - No - No
    Hooker - $999.99 - 1 7/8 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    ARH - $1442.99 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - Yes -With Cats
    ARH - $1230.99 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - Yes - No Cats
    ARH - $1251.99 - 1 7/8 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - Yes - No Cats

    TSP - $499.99 - 1 7/8 - Coated - Full - No - No

    Pacesetter - $369.99 - 1 3/4 - Coated - Full - No - No
    Pacesetter - $269.99 - 1 3/4 - Painted - Full - No - No
    Pacesetter - $369.99 - 1 3/4 - Painted - Full - No - Yes

    DynaTech - $859.99 - 1 7/8 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    SLP - $349.99 - 1 1/2 - Coated - Shorty - Yes - No ** V6 Headers **
    SLP - $724.99 - 1 3/4 - Coated - Full - No - Yes
    SLP - $854.99 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    Bassani - $642.88 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Shorty - Yes - No

    Edelbrock Victor Series - $250.00 - 1 3/4 - Coated - No - No

    LG - $1495.00 - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - No - Yes - Corvette Only

    Ebay Option's - $227.00 Est. - 1 3/4 - Stainless Steel - Full - No - No

    ebay headers - $160.00 - 1 3/4 - stainless steel - full - yes - no


    Off Road Y-Pipes

    Kooks - $311.99 3" Stainless Steel Off Road Y-Pipe
    Kooks - $606.99 3" Stainless Steel Catalytic Y-Pipe
    Kooks - $449.99 Stainless Steel Off Road Y-Pipe, 3" Inlets to 4" Outlet
    FlowTech - 129.99 Non Ceramic coated
    FlowTech - 229.99 Ceramic coated
    DynaTech - $119.99
    SLP - $189.99 - Painted
    Borla - $266.99 - Unknown
    Pacesetter - $159.99
    Bassani - Many to choose from. Range from $286.00 to $531.00
    LPP - $200.00 - Stainless
    LPP - $400.00 - Stainless - Catted Y-Pipe
    Hooker - $189.99 - 3" - Made for 2253 & 2253A long tubes
    Dougs - $201.99 - 3" - Aluminized
    FlowMaster "Merge" - 2" through 3" - $40-$50. CLICK HERE and HERE

    Do not buy a ORY for your stock manifolds. You will gain next to nothing for the money spent, and when you swap to headers you will be forced into buying another ORY.

    Exhaust systems - Usually "Cat Back"

    Corsa - $1072.99 - 3" diameter - Stainless Steel
    MagnaFlow - $476.99 - 3" diameter - Stainless Steel
    Basani True Dual - $935.99 Stainless Steel
    SLP LoudMouth - $399.99
    SLP LoudMouth II - $399.99
    FlowMaster - $389.00 -
    LPP/LS1 - $350.00 - True Dual w/ X pipe - Stainless Steel
    GMMG - $750.00 - California Emission Certified
    GMMG - $900.00 - Stainless Steel Tips - California Emission Certified
    Borla - $840.99 - Stainless Steel
    Borla - $1099.99 - Stainless Steel - 3" adjustable
    Texas Speed Rumbler - $239.99 - 3" - No tips - Add tips - $100-$125
    Stainless Works - $989.69 - 3" - Stainless Steel
    Edelbrock - $350.00 - 3" - Aluminized

    Ill try not to add too much opinion here. But the Magnaflow,Borla, and GMMG are all great pieces that sound awesome. SLP LM is a very loud and can get raspy with headers and a aftermarket camshaft. Despite common misconception, not all Flowmaster flow terrible. The 1 series Flowmaster flows great, and is very loud.

    Almost ANY of the headers above that are full length will give the SAME sound and nearly the SAME horsepower numbers. Your paying for material and fit/finish.

    That is just the major brands. If someone can chime in with their Ebay headers and prices, sizes, coating etc, I will add them to the list.

    Any other system that any member has pricing, Size, Coating/material, Brand, Etc that would like to have it added, post up either here, PM, or visitor Message. I will add and we can get as close to a complete list of every exhaust part possible in one place.

    After installing headers - 02 simulators - Tuning your rear O2 sensors out

    After you have installed your longtube headers, you rear O2 sensors will now be so far down stream the stock wiring will not reach. You can delete these rear sensors, the front o2 sensors are what determines fueling. People have tried making their own O2 simulators, and almost all have failed. Rain/car wash will be the largest enemy of those. You can buy o2 simulators from http://www.afterthoughtsauto.com/o2sim.html . If you have tuning software such as HP Tuners, you can do the fool proof way of deleting the rear o2 sensors. Having the rear sensors tuned out is by far the best way to insure you will never have a problem with them. This page will show you what sensors to turn off with HPT or other tuning software. how do I delete Rear O2's with HPT

    Other then tuning out those rear O2 sensors, your car does not require any further mandatory tuning. Now, if you want to see the full power increase from your headers,Ypipe, and catback, your going to need a tune. www.Tunedbyfrost.com Member name here is Frost. He can do a mail order tune that can delete your rear o2's, and tune for the headers/exhaust you just installed. Turn around on that is just a few days.

    Bosch 13111 PN O2's have longer pigtails, and can be used without extensions.

    Cost explanation
    Headers can get expensive because the saying is still true. You get what you pay for. The stainless steel headers should last a lifetime and almost all will have great fitment and not hang low. SLP is arguably the worst header on the market. Their tuned length headers hang very low and constantly cause problems for lowered cars. Even standard ride height cars have problems with them. If your lowered or plan on lowering, chose your header and exhaust system wisely so you don't regret it and have to buy new. Again, with the more expensive headers, your pay for quality, fit and finish

    Painted headers are always going to be the cheapest. The paint will chip/crack/peel after they see some good heat. Then they will rust, and then you will probably buy new headers. I would recommend at least buying headers that are ceramic coated. The coating will resist the common road chemicals and rain, for a while. Stainless Steel is the only way to get around it. If your looking for a budget header that will last a good long while, see above. See what falls in your price range.

    Y-Pipe with built in Catalytic Converter -
    These can sometimes keep you legal in the less strict states that still require some kind of emissions. However, there is a chance that you will have Catalytic converter inefficiency codes being thrown. The Catalytic converters that come with these Y-Pipes are smaller than stock and sometimes don't meet up with standards.

    Tuned Length - Do not buy headers based off this idea. You'll probably end up with horrible ground clearance and no actual added benefit.

    Stepped Headers - Headers can be stepped to the next size. Ex. 1 7/8 stepped to 2". Opt for this only if your engine can make use of it.

    The 1 3/4 vs 1 7/8 battle - This will probably never stop being discussed. Personally, I would always go 1 7/8's on 346CI (LS1 5.7) The day I see back to back Dyno/Track runs where it proves that 1 3/4 gained power, I will edit this. Until then, buy 1 7/8's, they will make more power.

    Running Open headers - Yo u can do this if you must or for some reason choose. There are some precautions you must take before doing so. Obviously you wont have any rear O2 sensors. But the front O2's will be seeing so much air coming from the back side of the header that it will see a major lean condition and will dump fuel trying to correct the false lean condition. Its also been said that the cold air after turning the car off can warp valves. I don't know if that true or holds any validity so don't hold me to it.
    Last edited by Y2KPewterSS; 01-26-2011 at 08:02 PM. Reason: Added

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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to post all this up Ron


    Post has become too long. Continued here

    Cut outs - You can pick up an electric cutout for pretty cheap now days. A manual cutout will be even cheaper. DMH cutouts have a great warranty and I find their motors to be more reliable then QTP cutouts. They are very simple to install. "FlowTech ready" means that you are buying the pipe AND the cutout. DMH electric cutouts can bee purchased cheap from www.KYSpeed.com. Member name here, Marksls1ta and FYC_Booby. I personally run a DMH, and would always recommend a DMH over a QTP

    DMH - $315.00 - DUAL - 4 year replacement warranty.
    DMH - $399.00 - DUAL - LOW PROFILE - 4 year replacement warranty
    DMH - $175.00 - Single - 4 year replacement warranty
    DMH - "Flow Tech" ready. ( Cutout Pipe ) - $25.00 for 2 - 3.5" Pipe & $85.00 for 4" Pipe

    QTP - $215.00 - SINGLE - 2.25" - 2.50" - 3.0" OR 3.5" With Pipe
    QTP - $265.00 - SINGLE - 4" With Pipe
    QTP - $425.00 - DUAL - 2.25" - 2.50" - 3.0" - 3.5" With Pipe (s)
    QTP - $525.00 - DUAL - 4" With Pipe (s)


    Coating and Wrap Options -
    Quite a few companies that offer this. One thing to keep in mind with header wraps is that if motor oil or ATF gets on it, you will likely have a fire. Ive heard SwainTech is a great coating. Here's a few pictures of the coating. http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h4.../swaintech.jpg | http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h4...waintech01.jpg. PolyDyn is another coating company I have read some good reviews on. If you have non coated headers and looking to upgrade without purchasing new, try this avenue.

    Exhaust welding, Exhaust band clamps -
    Personally, I love a good band clamp. If you buy cheap band clamps they might leak after a few weeks. When I installed my DMH electric cutout, I used two really good band clamps with a bead of Red RTV silicon ( High Temp ). It sealed very nicely. If you or any exhaust shop wants to weld up your exhaust system that's fine, but remember that when you go to drop your transmission, it will make it much more difficult. Being able to split your exhaust system is a nice luxury. A good exhaust clamp will run anywhere from 15 to 30 dollars a piece.
    Picture of a band clamp:


    Wideband Oxygen Sensors -
    Wideband O2 sensors are a great tuning tool, and also a great safety item to have. They measure your engines Air Fuel Ratio. The O2 sensor's that are in your car stock are narrow band sensors. Obviously from the name, these are wideband. There are a few different choices for widebands. The one I use is from Innovate motorsports, that I bought from Mark at KYSpeed.com. Innovate Motorsports offers two different styles of WB's. LM1 and LC1. LM1 is removable. This allows you to move the WB from car to car if you have multiple vehicles your trying to tune. LC-1 is a permanently installed WB sensor that stays in car. Both do a great job. There have been some issues with Innovated's WB sensor burning up from excess heat. In the instructions, They actually advise you to make a copper heat sink around the sensor. I think my sensor recently stopped working through no fault but my own.
    AEM UEGO Wideband O2 is also another company that sells WB's. I have no personal experience with this company but I have heard they are a very reliable (maybe even more so then Innovated) product. Either one will do the job.
    - To install a WB O2 sensor you simply have to weld a bung in the Y-Pipe. Just like a narrowband O2 sensor that everyone is used to. Installation takes a medium level on electrical knowledge. Placement of the sensor can be crucial. You don't want the sensor to far down stream, the further the sensor is down the Y-Pipe the more "lag" your reading will be. Both companies sell gauges so you can constantly monitor your Air Fuel Ratio, and you can also connect a laptop to the vehicle that is equipped with HP Tuners or EFI Live tuning software.

    Manifold Gaskets and Bolts -
    Many people have found that OEM GM manifold gaskets are the best still. The stock manifold bolts can be reused, but I hate reusing bolts/hardware that constantly sees extreme heat cycles. Just not worth having a leaking gasket or even worse, a broken bolt. Use Stock *NEW* OEM GM manifold gaskets, Part number *12617944*
    . If your like me and want new hardware, go to your local GM dealership and pick up new bolts. If your looking to delete EGR, the block off plate PN is *12558346*
    After installing your headers, you should always re-torque them or check the torque. This is because the gasket compressing and expanding as it sets. Once it sets, it will stay a certain constant width.

    Shorty Headers - Shorty Headers IMO are a complete waste of money. They barely flow better ( If at all ) then stock manifolds. Save your money.

    Mid Length Headers - If your state is crushing you with laws and you have to pass, these will help slightly

    Full length headers - The only way to go. Should be one of the first modifications done.

    Opinions go a long way in the exhaust world. Everyone has one. You have to pick what sound and price you want to go for. www.LS1sounds.com has many different setups to listen to.

    There are other styles of exhaust systems. True Dual/X pipe. TD / Dumped. Mufflex 4" single. There is a sticky that goes over True duals in detail. Mufflex is pretty expensive but does make great power when you have maxed out other setups. I personally run a Mufflex "style" fabricated exhaust.

    There are many places to buy all these parts from. This forum has many awesome sponsors. www.KYSPEED.com I'm sure could get all these parts at a better cost then most. FRC_Bobby and Marksls1ta are the members names. Shoot them a PM for pricing. Moderators, feel free to add any sponsors who might carry these parts as well.

    If your looking for that awesome CME look for your Camaro, Sommer86@6LE at 6litereaterdesigns.com can hook you up.
    Last edited by 0rion; 01-26-2010 at 11:14 AM. Reason: More Room

  3. #3
    Senior Member tatertot91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to post all this up Ron
    Should save a bunch of questions

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    Anyone with Ebay headers, Post up your price,size,coating/material when you get a chance.
    370 CI - Twin 6766 Turbo - Jakes stage 5 4L80E - MWC 9" - Holley Dominator

    Build in progress...

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    Member Maro SS's Avatar
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    woop! nice write up.

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    Junior Member BamBam87's Avatar
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    i will say for someone like me who is still in the baby steps of learning about my car.....this thread about the exhaust system was really really helpful thanks

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    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    I think this is worthy of a sticky.. IMHO Hi-Po nailed it.. I give it 5 stars...
    :\Users\Steven\Pictures\d6ftg5nh.gif


    Suggestion: If you are particularly irritated by another member's posting habits and are constantly fighting the urge to flame them, you can click on that person's profile, and select "Add to ignore list." This will make that person's posts invisible to you.

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    Member vette0009's Avatar
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    Nice Job !

    Hi-Po, I just bought a set of 1 7/8 " X 3" American Racing Headers, (Chose These Mostly For The Fit)
    They should arrive next week sometime, and then I'm going to Drop them off at the HighTemp Coating Place like you suggested,

    I am trying to locate some 3" titanium pipe so I can Fab a mid section on my exhaust and hopefully shedd a few more pounds

    All the Best And Leave The Rest,
    Bon
    Last edited by vette0009; 11-19-2009 at 03:41 PM. Reason: misprint

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    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vette0009 View Post
    Nice Job !

    Hi-Po, I just bought a set of 1 7/8 " X 3" American Racing Headers,
    They should arrive next week sometime, and then I'm going to Drop them off at the HighTemp Coating Place like you suggested,

    I am trying to locate some 3" titanium pipe so I can Fab a mid section on my exhaust and hopefully shedd a few more pounds

    All the Best And Leave The Rest,
    Bon
    Whao, wait, titanium? I'm very interested in this. Who would you join standard steel to titanium? Would you use clamps or some other method? How do you weld it?

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    Veteran Hi-Po's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vette0009 View Post
    Nice Job !

    Hi-Po, I just bought a set of 1 7/8 " X 3" American Racing Headers,
    They should arrive next week sometime, and then I'm going to Drop them off at the HighTemp Coating Place like you suggested,

    I am trying to locate some 3" titanium pipe so I can Fab a mid section on my exhaust and hopefully shedd a few more pounds

    All the Best And Leave The Rest,
    Bon
    Those are GREAT headers! You'll love them.

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    Now in Summit LT1 Flavor! Y2KArcticSS's Avatar
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    Good thread man. Not that I need it, since I already have a set of coated Pacesetters (that I got for dirt cheap $350 brand new out of the box in '08, when they were stil 450 new). But this will hopefully weed out some of the header threads that pop up...or at least make them shorter. Every one that I see, I will link to this thread if not already done.

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    NY Representative basballny2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vette0009 View Post
    Nice Job !

    Hi-Po, I just bought a set of 1 7/8 " X 3" American Racing Headers,
    They should arrive next week sometime, and then I'm going to Drop them off at the HighTemp Coating Place like you suggested,

    I am trying to locate some 3" titanium pipe so I can Fab a mid section on my exhaust and hopefully shedd a few more pounds

    All the Best And Leave The Rest,
    Bon
    if you bought american racing headers you dont need to get them coated.....there 304 stainless steel.....

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    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
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    I made this a sticky and deleted the humor posts. Lets try to keep this strictly a technical thread free of clutter/nonsense so we can easily reference it.

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    LSwut tep98ws6's Avatar
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    AWESOME. very helpful

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    Great work Hi-Po! Any idea if Kooks, or other manufacturers, offer an option to purchase stainless headers with an extra O2 bung pre-installed. I could easily see myself adding an A/F gauge at a later date and this would be nice to have as I am not set up to weld stainless.

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    Veteran Hi-Po's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Great work Hi-Po! Any idea if Kooks, or other manufacturers, offer an option to purchase stainless headers with an extra O2 bung pre-installed. I could easily see myself adding an A/F gauge at a later date and this would be nice to have as I am not set up to weld stainless.
    Judging by this photo here from Kooks website, it looks as if they have a bung for you O2 sensor as well as an extra bung for a WB. My Kooks do not have this.

    Last edited by Hi-Po; 11-19-2009 at 04:58 PM.

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    That makes sense -- a problem in either bank is going to affect the A/F reading. How far downstream of the Y-merge did you position it?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    That makes sense -- a problem in either bank is going to affect the A/F reading. How far downstream of the Y-merge did you position it?
    Man, Im sorry Jeff. Im confusing my exhaust parts. I actually second guessed myself so much I just walked down to the barn to look and make sure

    I have my WB installed in after my left header collector, probably 8-10" before it Y's off. You would be fine with the one. For some reason I thought I had mine mounted after the Y.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Po View Post
    Man, Im sorry Jeff. Im confusing my exhaust parts. I actually second guessed myself so much I just walked down to the barn to look and make sure

    I have my WB installed in after my left header collector, probably 8-10" before it Y's off. You would be fine with the one. For some reason I thought I had mine mounted after the Y.

    It happens. I still have further exhaust mods on my winter wish list. Whether I will get to a wideband and an electric cutout remains to be seen. Right now, I am awaiting the phone call to go get my 12 bolt.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    It happens. I still have further exhaust mods on my winter wish list. Whether I will get to a wideband and an electric cutout remains to be seen. Right now, I am awaiting the phone call to go get my 12 bolt.
    I got my Cutout and WB locations mixed up there. A WB can be installed at any time.

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