View Poll Results: Which would you get???

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  • American Racing (stainless)

    27 20.30%
  • QTP (stainless)

    17 12.78%
  • SLP (stainless)

    2 1.50%
  • PaceSetters (ceramic coated)

    59 44.36%
  • OBX (ebay stainless specials)

    11 8.27%
  • none of the above

    17 12.78%
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Buying headers is tough, pls help.

This is a discussion on Buying headers is tough, pls help. within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by N20LT4 Just to chime in on this one here...how about some power/dyno comparisons between these two headers ...

  1. #101
    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    Just to chime in on this one here...how about some power/dyno comparisons between these two headers (the Kooks and ARH). I am aware they do infact have two completely different collector designs, but the question is are the Kooks that much better for the price difference. After all, it is significant.
    ARH's are $1149 (cheapest I can find) including the ORY, where Kooks are going to cost just slightly more @ ~$1300 with the ORY. Dyno #'s would be cool though! Too bad I blew up my motor, or I could dyno it again for #'s before/after the Kooks install... The new motor is going back in with a cam which will "skew" my #'s just a little! :twisted:

    -Eagle

  2. #102
    LTX N20LT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    ARH's are $1149 (cheapest I can find) including the ORY, where Kooks are going to cost just slightly more @ ~$1300 with the ORY. Dyno #'s would be cool though! Too bad I blew up my motor, or I could dyno it again for #'s before/after the Kooks install... The new motor is going back in with a cam which will "skew" my #'s just a little! :twisted:

    -Eagle
    Well now that you mention the price of the ARH's, I guess it would be worth going with the Kooks for just $150 more! I had no idea the ARH's cost that much.

    Skew the numbers just a little huh...yeah

  3. #103
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    2001 Transam WS6

    Just a little info. Search craigslist.com STL there is a set of kooks for sale brand new $900 might be able to talk cash?

  4. #104
    LTX N20LT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMERacing View Post
    Just a little info. Search craigslist.com STL there is a set of kooks for sale brand new $900 might be able to talk cash?
    Good price. I bet you could talk him down.

  5. #105
    Member 02nbmvert's Avatar
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    Navy blue Metallic
    2002 trans am

    I'm sure this is probably a dumb idea, but I was wondering if the painted (non ceramic coated) pacesetter LTs are worth while at all? for $260 or whatever they're one of the cheapest options out there. They probably have the benefit of a typically good pacesetter fit and ease of install. Anybody know from experience how long they last? I'm sure they could be a decent idea for someone whos car doesn't see much weather. Any ideas?

  6. #106
    LTX N20LT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02nbmvert View Post
    I'm sure this is probably a dumb idea, but I was wondering if the painted (non ceramic coated) pacesetter LTs are worth while at all? for $260 or whatever they're one of the cheapest options out there. They probably have the benefit of a typically good pacesetter fit and ease of install. Anybody know from experience how long they last? I'm sure they could be a decent idea for someone whos car doesn't see much weather. Any ideas?
    They are a good deal for the price, but beware they will eventually rust. I ran a set of painted Pacesetters a couple years ago, and pulled them off a year and a half later to be coated and indeed they did rust. I spot welded them and sent them to Jet Hot.

  7. #107
    Member 02nbmvert's Avatar
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    Navy blue Metallic
    2002 trans am

    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    They are a good deal for the price, but beware they will eventually rust. I ran a set of painted Pacesetters a couple years ago, and pulled them off a year and a half later to be coated and indeed they did rust. I spot welded them and sent them to Jet Hot.
    How much is powdercoating? probably enough that it'd be a better deal to just get coated LTs, I guess. Did your car see much weather over that year and a half? My car for example is in storage 4-6 months out of the year and not driven in bad weather. I'm really considering getting the painteds, that way if my car needs a tune pretty bad afterwards I'll be $110 closer to having the cash for it.

  8. #108
    Knight of Chaos xzaero0's Avatar
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    I got my ARH 1 7/8 with 3" collector for $849

    Really, mabey I'm just dumb as a brick but I had my ARH in my living room for 3 months before they were installed. I really went over them when I got them casue it is alot of money for 1 mod. I knew every weld, every inch and even the finishing marks on them. When I seen Rhinomans Kooks, I was really dumbfounded.

    The mounting brackets even had the same finishing marks on them. The tubes were welded to the mounting bracket in the same place and the same way. The name tabs were welded in the exact same place. The tubes looked Identical, except his were for the GTO so they were alittle longer, but they looked almost exact. Down to where the bung was on the same place right after the same primary where the tubes come togeather. I had a 3" collector on mine and he didnt have one on his. They even had the same runner on the inside where the primary tubes came togeather. Hell they were even dull- not shined in the same place. Holding his headers it was like holding the pair on my TA.

  9. #109
    LTX N20LT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02nbmvert View Post
    How much is powdercoating? probably enough that it'd be a better deal to just get coated LTs, I guess. Did your car see much weather over that year and a half? My car for example is in storage 4-6 months out of the year and not driven in bad weather. I'm really considering getting the painteds, that way if my car needs a tune pretty bad afterwards I'll be $110 closer to having the cash for it.
    I believe at the time it was $250 to have them coated.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by xzaero0 View Post
    I got my ARH 1 7/8 with 3" collector for $849

    Really, mabey I'm just dumb as a brick but I had my ARH in my living room for 3 months before they were installed. I really went over them when I got them casue it is alot of money for 1 mod. I knew every weld, every inch and even the finishing marks on them. When I seen Rhinomans Kooks, I was really dumbfounded.

    The mounting brackets even had the same finishing marks on them. The tubes were welded to the mounting bracket in the same place and the same way. The name tabs were welded in the exact same place. The tubes looked Identical, except his were for the GTO so they were alittle longer, but they looked almost exact. Down to where the bung was on the same place right after the same primary where the tubes come togeather. I had a 3" collector on mine and he didnt have one on his. They even had the same runner on the inside where the primary tubes came togeather. Hell they were even dull- not shined in the same place. Holding his headers it was like holding the pair on my TA.
    Yes, they both have the scavenger spike in the collector, but if you look again @ the ARH collector you'll see that its nothing like the Kooks. The beginning of the ARH collector follows the same "slope" the scavenger spike has and then opens back up again kind of creating something like a venturi effect. The Kooks on the other hand have a good ol fashioned huge 3" collector all the way to where each of the 4 primary tubes connect.

    Like I said, they are both very high quality products and more than likely produce very close to the same power gains... however they are NOT the same product nor are they manufactured by the same people...

    -Eagle

  11. #111
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    I'm not going to read through all the other posts so if this is repetitious, oops sorry.

    I have Kooks 1-3/4" LT's with Kooks ORY. Both are out of 300 series stainless; they will not rust and 'should not' discoler. They are TIG welded. They are made on order and in the USA. They are a very good fit. If I were to purchase another set of headers for a different vehicle, I'd go with Kooks again. They perform and will basically last forever.

    Hooker's instructions state that you need to lift the vehicle an minimum of 36" for install and Kooks stated 24". One thing I can attest to, you need 24" to get the Kooks drivers side in.

    Performance wise? Let's start with a breakdown of my current enhancements. Kooks LT headers, Kooks ORY, Magnaflow quad CB, SLP lid, SLP bellows, Blackwing filter, Magnacor wires, Denso iridium plugs and 3.73 gears. I just Dyno'd at 343.9 rwhp @ 5500 rpm and the torque was 347.7 @ 4200 rpm; performed on a Mustang Dynamometer.

    Cam swap is next; I'm looking for the 400+ rwhp advantage, but that maybe a winter project.

  12. #112
    Member jujofields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xzaero0 View Post
    I got my ARH 1 7/8 with 3" collector for $849

    Really, mabey I'm just dumb as a brick but I had my ARH in my living room for 3 months before they were installed. I really went over them when I got them casue it is alot of money for 1 mod. I knew every weld, every inch and even the finishing marks on them. When I seen Rhinomans Kooks, I was really dumbfounded.

    The mounting brackets even had the same finishing marks on them. The tubes were welded to the mounting bracket in the same place and the same way. The name tabs were welded in the exact same place. The tubes looked Identical, except his were for the GTO so they were alittle longer, but they looked almost exact. Down to where the bung was on the same place right after the same primary where the tubes come togeather. I had a 3" collector on mine and he didnt have one on his. They even had the same runner on the inside where the primary tubes came togeather. Hell they were even dull- not shined in the same place. Holding his headers it was like holding the pair on my TA.

    How/where were you able to get them for that price? That is, if you don't mind me asking....also, that included S/H & the Y-pipe?

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMERacing View Post
    I have the SLP tuned LTs, cats, ypipe with Loudmouth 1
    I love the setup, the only thing I dont like is the ground clearance.
    but fit/quality is great. The LTs, cats, ypipe took 4 hours to install.
    and these were the first headers I have ever installed.

    video of Exhaust
    http://video.cardomain.com/Clip.aspx...E297D30CBF2D81
    Car page itself
    http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3022039
    anything else done or just exhause i have the loudmouth been thinking about the headers ypipe high flow cats but not sure car isn't lowered and will abe sitting on 17's in the front and 18's in the back.

  14. #114
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Fit, finish, and quality are all parts of SLP's problem.
    Ground clearance problems ARE fit and finish.


    Pacesetters for the budget header.
    Kooks otherwise.
    2008 Trailblazer SS
    Yank PTB3600, Kooks 1 7/8" LT's, 4" intake, E-fans, Magnaflow, Sonnax kit, tranny cooler, tune.
    Lowered, HID's, tinted.

    1999 Pontiac Trans Am WS.6 #1747 SOLD
    531.1 RWHP 481.3 FT/Pounds all motor.

  15. #115
    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Luos View Post
    Fit, finish, and quality are all parts of SLP's problem.
    Ground clearance problems ARE fit and finish.


    Pacesetters for the budget header.
    Kooks otherwise.
    Summarized like 6 pages in 4 sentences! +1!

    -Eagle

  16. #116
    Knight of Chaos xzaero0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jujofields View Post
    How/where were you able to get them for that price? That is, if you don't mind me asking....also, that included S/H & the Y-pipe?
    I got them from LMPERFORMANCE. It was a special they were running at the time. I guess they had to special order it cause they werent on there normal parts list. Still had to wait almost 3 months before I got them tho. I didnt buy the y pipe. Don't quote me but I think that Shipping and handling was free.

  17. #117
    Hi

    I just installed a set of ARH And Cattes Y-pipe on my 02 CETA and the install was semi simple. the pass side was the worst. other than that it was not bad.
    the headers slipped right in without any mods to the car. the only thing I had to install 4 5/8 inch spacers on the wavy trans tunnel brace to keep it away from the new y-pipe.
    I bought them from ARH direct.

  18. #118
    Junior Member NuthinLikeMe's Avatar
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    If you have money, go with stainless steel everything like I did so no rust. You could always have them anodized if you want color.

    Best bang for buck on headers is Pacestter lt's with ceramic coating and you can still use the better slp ory with the better 2-1 collector with them too and will fit any cat-back.

    If you want raw rumble and power go with tsp td's and I have a used set with dynomax mufflers up for sale too.

    You don't need to go wide band until you start doing a cam and heads and bigger induction ect... unless you want to and have the money for it. There are kits that slide over your exhaust tips so you don't have to have a bung welded in.

    Fab you are not looking at much for welding ory if you dont get a one piecer maybe 100-125 and install of everything you can do your self pretty easy in an hour or two's worth of work.

    Stainless works make great custom built lt's and kooks are stainless too. Many choices, many routes to go with your car. Good luck.

  19. #119
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    NuthinLikeMe - Do you have more information about the kit the slides over the exhaust tips?

  20. #120
    Member midi_2001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mghawk57 View Post
    NuthinLikeMe - Do you have more information about the kit the slides over the exhaust tips?
    My setup is all slip-over; no welding.

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