ANOTHER exhaust question (please be patient)

**02nbmvert** · 05-17-2007, 07:20 PM

hey guys, i'm new to the forum although i've been reading as many relevant posts as possible over the last couple weeks. i recently bought an 02 nbm vert trans am and am itching to start the modding (trying to upload a pic/i suck at computers!)... i've read all the popular first mods (lids/cai kits/cat back systems/etc) and i'm not really sure what i want to start with (something in the $300 range for now) but i was wondering if anyones had luck putting together their own cat back systems. for example buying some stainless pipes and having them mandrel bent to fit and just matching it up with a good muffler/etc. please advise me, oh great ones! btw, i'm really looking foreward to meeting some new people with similar interests, anyone from central PA area??? thanks!

**96z28** · 05-17-2007, 10:18 PM

nice looking car. Ive never put my own cat back system together but i would think the process itself would be more expensive than just buying the catback. For $300 it would be kind of difficult to get a catback together. Unless you know someone that knows somebody whos second cousin third removed owns a shop or something

**LS2Tuner** · 05-18-2007, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by 02nbmvert

hey guys, i'm new to the forum although i've been reading as many relevant posts as possible over the last couple weeks. i recently bought an 02 nbm vert trans am and am itching to start the modding (trying to upload a pic/i suck at computers!)... i've read all the popular first mods (lids/cai kits/cat back systems/etc) and i'm not really sure what i want to start with (something in the $300 range for now) but i was wondering if anyones had luck putting together their own cat back systems. for example buying some stainless pipes and having them mandrel bent to fit and just matching it up with a good muffler/etc. please advise me, oh great ones! btw, i'm really looking foreward to meeting some new people with similar interests, anyone from central PA area??? thanks!

Welcome and for your $300 go on Ebay and buy a Diablo Predator hand held tuner!!
It will give you the most gain your going to get for $300.
Stainless is a waste of money in my view unless you drive the car in the winterand they use salt where your at. It is also heavier.Aluminized pipe is just fine and if your on a budget the 3-6 hp difference really isn't worth it to buy a cat back just find a good local exhaust shop to do the pipe and put some good flowing mufflers on it. The choices are endless now it all depends on what sound you like.
Goodluck and don't be scared to ask us ?'s.

**02nbmvert** · 05-18-2007, 04:11 AM

Yeah, i was thinking any kind of decent exhaust would def. run me more than $300 but i figured it wouldnt hurt to ask about throwing one together myself, my dad did that with his s10 blazer and actually saved some money and thought the results were better than most of the systems he would have bought for the price, just wanted some other opinions, thanks!

**02nbmvert** · 05-18-2007, 04:17 AM

thanks for your input! i didnt even think about a tuner. do you know of anybody having problems with them? i've heard a couple stories from various tuners, but the reason i ask is that my car is my DD and I dont want to mod it any way that could make it less reliable. also with my limited mechanical knowledge, i need something i can fix/work on/learn about myself. and as far as the stainless exhaust, around these parts it seems as if they ridiculously over salt the roads at the first sign of what could possibly turn into snow... and as far as the sound of the system, my current setup is stock and i doubt i'll ever do headers (although true duals would be awesome) but i'm dying for a lower much more agressive tone... after reading around different posts and such i'm thinking maybe loudmouth would be a decent way to go...

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 04:10 PM

the quickest and cheapest way would cost around 50 bucks. A cut-out. Or you could go ahead and purchase LTs (Pacesetter-best bang for buck) and add a cut-out. Cut-outs are good, when you want it loud and more power uncap it, when you want the stock sound cap it. Not a fan of spending 300 plus for a handheld (tried it and wasn't happy with the results), I prefer a real tune on a dyno for roughly the same price. You can def. tell a difference though if you decide to go with LTs.

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 04:12 PM

Also on the Loudmouth, depending on your taste for sound, I know a lot of people around my area hated it once they started modding. Too raspy of a sound at mid to high RPMs. And they all wasted their money on a name. They went to a X-pipe or back to a muffler with a cut-out.

**02nbmvert** · 05-18-2007, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by TACE02

the quickest and cheapest way would cost around 50 bucks. A cut-out. Or you could go ahead and purchase LTs (Pacesetter-best bang for buck) and add a cut-out. Cut-outs are good, when you want it loud and more power uncap it, when you want the stock sound cap it. Not a fan of spending 300 plus for a handheld (tried it and wasn't happy with the results), I prefer a real tune on a dyno for roughly the same price. You can def. tell a difference though if you decide to go with LTs.

thanks! i'll really look into the whole cut out option, although i have to admit, even after reading all the posts about them i still feel like i know nothing...could you please elaborate a bit?? LT's would definately be cool but not sure about the difficulty of install (i'm limited to me and my dad and what we can get done in a few hours/most of a day) my main question with LT's would be i definately need a legal setup and i hear lts can interfere with that, as well as making sure my car remains as reliable as possible... any more input would be awesome!

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 04:35 PM

A cut-out is just basically a piece of Y tubing that has a cap on the Y coming off of it. You can place it anywhere along the single piping between the Y pipe and the muffler. All it does is bypasses the muffler freeing up some HP that your motor allready produces. If you are worried about emissions just cap it and go. They are very easy to cap and uncap and generally cost anywhere between 50-100 bucks with install at a muffler shop. Cut-outs and LTs would not cost you any reliability, both of them just let your motor breath easier. As far as ease, Pacesetter is one of the easier ones to mount. Might get a little pricey having to add a Y-pipe with cats. And you would def. need to get front 02 extensions and possibly rear 02 sims, unless you take it to get tuned then you can just delete the rear ones.

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 04:38 PM

here is an example of the cut-out:

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...baf97ac82423ae

With this there is nothing else needed. It takes all of about 30 minutes or less depending on the welder and it is done.

**02nbmvert** · 05-18-2007, 04:44 PM

im feeling a bit overwhelmed

haha so if i went with the pacesetter lts id have to get a y pipe w/ cats and the front 02 extensions and rear 02 sims as well??? correct me if i'm wrong but it seems like most ppl doing LTs recomend true duals at the same time. would doing true duals only be the difference of an x pipe instead of a y pipe and whatever i'd need to get the pipes over the axle or dump them before that? thanks!

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 05:08 PM

LOL, why am I not surprised. You just entered a world of dam near endless possibilities..HAHA.

If you go the X-pipe route and want to keep emissions legal, better have some money. If you go LTs and want to keep emissions legal it will cost a little bit. That is why I suggested the cut-out. Based on the $300 you mentioned, best bang for buck would be LID and Cut-out for around the $300 range. But then I would suggest you start saving up money, cause once the mod bug hits, its gonna start getting expensive.

As for X-pipe vs Y-pipe, with future mods in mind, the X would be a way better choice, you would have 2 3" exhaust tubes instead of 1 with a Y. A Y-pipe will be more than sufficient if your mod plans stay out of the motor ie. Heads, cam, stroker kits.

**02nbmvert** · 05-18-2007, 05:17 PM

awesome, that really cleared a lot up for me man. its $300 for now, but ittl probably be close to $300 a month every month following, haha. I know what you mean about the modding, i feel like my money is burning a hole in my pocket already and i havent even done anything yet! i guess i'll stick with the Y pipe then as i doubt i'll get into h/c set ups or anything... i'll probably stick with bolt ons for quite a while. as far as a cutout kit, would you recomend electric or manual? and is it worth while to try checking the classifieds here on the forum? oh and if my exhaust system is stock its gonna be 2.5", right? thanks!

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 05:24 PM

And yes with the LTs, u might want to go with high flow cats, def. need 02 extensions for the front sensors, and I would recommend sims for the rear 02 sensors. And of course your choice on Y-pipe or X-pipe. easier for emissions if you stick with Y-pipe and just install a cut-out. With LTs you are definately looking at over $300. closer to around $800 range

around:
$290---LTs
$265---pair of high flow cats
$130---Y-pipe
$ 80---rear 02 sims
$ 30---02 extensions
plus maintenance cost for any welding you want done or anything you cant do yourself.

**02nbmvert** · 05-18-2007, 05:33 PM

yeah i guess ill write all this stuff down for the "end result" list... haha maybe round one will be a cutout and lid... round 2 ported tb and maybe plugs/wires if needed... i'll def. have a few hundred every couple months to throw at 'er. id like to look into a CAI a bit more too, but the pros and cons of slp/ssra/ftra really leave me on the fence with what would be best for me...

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 05:37 PM

It depends on the electric vs manual cut-out. I have heard the electrical ones can mess up since it is an electrical motor under your car exposed to weather. Not to mention it costs close to $190. I would just recommend the manual. That is what I started out with...LOL. And I think you are right 2.5" is stock, I just got in a hurry and posted a pic of the 3" cut-out.

Here is an idea for around $250:

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...4af9b0d5cbc574

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...4af9b0d5cbc574
or I like this lid but you need the breather also
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...4af9b0d5cbc574 and breather http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...roducts_id=538

and of course filter
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...4af9b0d5cbc574

**TACE02** · 05-18-2007, 05:43 PM

Well if you are thinking about the CAI do it first then since it is around $280 The kit comes with lid, smooth bellows, K&N filter and aluminum piece that directs airflow flow under the car, and comes with instructions and you will end up doing the free ram air mod. And don't worry it is a very snug fit, just have to use a little muscle to get it all lined up and on. LOL.

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...4af9b0d5cbc574

**02nbmvert** · 05-18-2007, 05:51 PM

im wondering if all my reading is good for me or not, haha.. i'm second guessing everything based on the hundreds of opinions i've read. the cutout looks awesome, seems like everybody loves that... i really like that clear lid, although not sure if its worth 30 more bucks (plus the 15 for that other little part i'd need). it seems like the filter isnt really a popular mod (not worth the gains for the price/risking the oil getting on the MAF) and as far as the slp CAI kit, everybody says the smooth bellows are useless, and i already mentioned the filter... i'm thinking maybe the lid and that CAI piece to draw air from under the car in conjunction with the cutout for round one of modding fever... if i can get all that in at once i'm sure i'd feel a huge difference. i cant believe how helpful it is to have other peoples input. i need to make some "car guy" friends in the area for the purpose of more instant conversation, hah. thanks man! this forum is the coolest thing i've discovered since my ls1!!

**LS2Tuner** · 05-18-2007, 07:52 PM

Sorry to inform you but you are NOT going to gain much power by just putting a cutout!! And with the stock tune you have it will not do anything other than make a bunch of noise. And in most peoples eyes at least ALL my customers and friends it sounds like SHIT. You motor is designed to run with back pressure. By placing a cutout up towards the front of the car you are not only loosing back pressure due to the loss of the muffler but also loosing exhaust volocity due to pipe loss.
It has been debated by many on here a few times in just the short period I've been on here. If you do a search you'll be able to read pages and pages on this. It may seem faster but MOST of the gain is in your mind due to the loudness of your motor now.
And if you can find a good tuner that will actually spend the time to go into your ECU and tune it for $300 more power to you. I would just make sure they are good and if they are that is scary cheap unless they are your personal friend. The Predator is a great tuner for the price and the data logging features. If you don't like there tune you can go in there and modify the paprameters your self or even call them and have them make cahnges and download them off there website.
You need some type of performance tune before you go wasting money on other mods. Your car is tuned right now for emissions and government standards that GM had to meet. Not max performance.

**TACE02** · 05-19-2007, 01:38 AM

yes the LS1 is designed to run with back pressure stock and all but the cutout doesn't free up the exhaust that much. I have a friend I run all the time and I tear him up by at least a full car or more when he caps his cutout and runs through his GMMG exhaust. When he uncaps it, I have yet to beat him. He always wins by about half to a full car. Granted both of us are modded a good bit, but the road tests don't lie.
And even if the cutout only adds 5 HP that is around $10 a horse. Thats about as cheap as you will get anything in the mod game. Not to mention cap it for inspections or when you have a headache. And yes when I was a lid and cutout, I could tell a difference between capped and uncapped, and no it wasn't just because of the sound. But I do like loud so I dumped mine right under the passenger seat...haha.