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Air Filter Comparison AC Delco vs K&N vs Green NO dyno #s !

This is a discussion on Air Filter Comparison AC Delco vs K&N vs Green NO dyno #s ! within the External Engine forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Had the opportunity to make a useless post and take pictures so I went for it I'll keep this super ...

  1. #1
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    Smile Air Filter Comparison AC Delco vs K&N vs Green NO dyno #s !

    Had the opportunity to make a useless post and take pictures so I went for it

    I'll keep this super short this time. I bought my ss with a K&N. Ive always liked them but it fit like $hit in the blackwing box/lid. I took it out to get a cleaner kit as i had no idea what they mileage or how dirty it could have been and put in an AC Delco filter since I like in a new construction zone anyways and I didnt plan to beat on the car till I freshened alot of things up and got it up to par.

    I like K&N and never had an issue with them. Im sure we all can agree that the internet is full of so much BS that its nearly impossible to seperate the bs from fact. I can 'feel' a difference with a k&n.. lmao such a classic. I bet if you didnt eat that big mac yesterday you'd be lighter too and you would probably feel it :nod: I googled as much as you about filter and dyno tests and comparisons and in the end I went with what I liked. I ordered a Green filter.

    Here's my .02 on the 3.

    AC Delco:

    Fits great.
    Really tall pleats (more surface area?)
    filters well
    felt no difference of course from the dirty K&N or maybe it was the wife overloading my senses with stress and kept me from noticing who knows.
    Glue seepage on the clean side. Surprised to see it and no wonder the ends of the pleats never got dirty.

    K&N:

    Fits like total rear end. I mean My blackwing lid clamps were so loose I couldnt even keep them up on the lid. ALmost like they were telling me wtf you doing. The thickness of the K&N is much smaller than oem filters and it doesnt give the upper lid anything to press onto the airbox to give a tight seal. I cleaned this filter and was going to use it so I washed the rubber with dishwashing soap. got yelled at by the wife for having more car stuff in the sink and then put on foam tape all around to help give it a better seal.
    Sucks that it never gets pink like new. once they get dirty they will always stay darker in the areas that gather more crud.
    Very flimsy build. hold it from one side and it flexes and the pleats bend and get all out of shape. Not by much but it sucks.
    There is seepage of the black stuff used to keep the filter together onto the filter area. about .5 inch x the entire length so thats not too great I suppose.

    Green:

    Fits Amazing !!! I installed it on the way into work and wow it's a great fit. tighter than the delco even and I have a decent amount of tension in the lid clamps so I feel better knowing its putting pressure down on the filter to keep it sealed.
    Noticed the steel mesh is a larger square design than the k&n. I guess they wont stop small pebbles like the k&n but the media behind it looks much more intense'? im at a loss for words at 330 am sorry The cotton behind it is finer and and at least to my eye looks like it can do a better job. I dont know f** all so Im no expert its just my .02
    The green has much less seepage than the K&N. They advertise this on their website. I was surprised to see any but when I measure it was around .3x16" of an inch on both sides more filtering area. If someone can do the math I'd be honored.
    The build is WAY better than the K&N. the edges are all made thick and durable. it doesnt flex when handled and just feels solid.

    Here are the pics !

    All 3. K&N cleaned once ( and probably under oiled a bit). dirty Delco and new Green




    Delco was widest but the edges didnt get dirty due to the glue on the back



    Tall pleats = more surface area? maybe this is why aftermarket filters dont pick up any power?


    K&N



    Flimsy


    Thin surround = pi$$ poor filter seal. You can see the foam I used to help make it thicker. I didnt end up using it anyways since the green arrived today. You can see the difference vs the delco here




    New bad boy. GREEN !!



    thickness and seal area Green vs delco.


    K&N vs Green closer view.


    Cant wait to beat the snot out of my SS on the way home tonight and see if it will finally hit 4th gear at full throttle from 3rd over and over again. The perks of night shift lol (empty roads and highways) !

    CONCLUSION. I dont think I will ever buy a K&N over a green EVER. K&N you are dead to me period. The Green is better in every way and is even supposed to filter better. I'll be leaving the green in for several weeks and when the winter tires go on I'll probably throw the delco on to suffer the poor weather. I mean who races in the snow anyways.

    Tim Hortons COffee here I come !!! :burn:

  2. #2
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    I've done K&N home research myself. Hold it up to a bare light bulb if you'd like to wonder what it was doing to your cylinder walls.. K&N = over priced junk, misquoted/disproven gains.. A plain old paper or micro filter seems best.. Dyno proven..
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-13-2010 at 06:37 AM.
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    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    so what is the cleaning method for the green filter? is it similar to the k&n? and how does it compare in price?

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    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Imho the skinny on the concepts behind the K&N are thus..

    Old engines with high wear/mileage have lost some of their crank hp due to wear..

    The K&N filter seems to have been designed to give some of that back..

    However it's been dyno proven to give gains ~1hp crank..

    That slight improvement just = a little more off the line response out of an old power plant..

    It has more to do with the "conception" of gains than any REAL gains..

    See, the gimick is not only in the advertisments, it's right there in the filter aswell..

    I would never, NEVER install a K&N on a low mileage/new engine...
    Last edited by Smittro; 10-13-2010 at 06:53 AM.

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    From what I found the method is very similar to k&n but instead of aerosol you have a tube of oil that you apply down each pleat. It seems like it's a little better way to control how much oil is being applied. I think k&n started offering oil in a bottle based on greens success in Europe but then again its just a guess.

    I think if you are against a k&n a green is not that much better in that it's just like a k&n but just a slightly better filter with a better build.

    I wanted to try the amsoil but I kept getting their black and white advertisement flyers that looked like they were being sold in the 1950s. I really wonder about their advertising dept and their strategies. I think I will end up trying it sooner or later ( the nanofiber one )

  6. #6
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    I'm with Smittro on this one. My K&N experience from our racing days is that it simply passes way too much dirt into the engine. All our DD's run paper filters and the T/A has the Amsoil Ea filter. Thankfully, it was equipped with a paper filter when we bought the car.

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    Life in the Fast lane sunsetorangess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    I've done K&N home research myself. Hold it up to a bare light bulb if you'd like to wonder what it was doing to your cylinder walls.. K&N = over priced junk, misquoted/disproven gains.. A plain old paper or micro filter seems best.. Dyno proven..
    I agree 110 percent...
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    2001 SS, Its not the car its the Driver that matters....

  8. #8
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    k&n's supposed gains come from the fact that it "lets" more air through..the same as letting dirt(our biggest problem) On our cars etc..you wont see a gain as we have extremely good intake tracts and in general flow enough air where a filter is not a major restriction ....however on some other cars a bigger gain may be possible with K&N filters.....however i run a stock paper filter on my car and have ditched the k&N as its gains are not worth a damn

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Gains from air filters=zero
    2000 nhra edition formula
    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
    11.96 @113.25

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    I wouldn't go that far as to say theres no gains to be had. In my opinion the oems design the filter surface Area to provide enough air and when slightly dirty have almost no negative effect on airflow. Once they become dirtier the airflow will be reduced the dirtier it gets the more restrictive obviously and power will be lost. I think keeping a clean paper filter is still not a bad idea and the best for most.

    Ive dyno tuned a few cars and i think it's fair to say the dyno does a decent job but does NOT replicate what actually happens on the road so it unfair to write off potential for power gains. The only time I actually saw someone do a pull with a paper vs a foam his filter the difference was dramatic. It was a 91 skyline with a built motor making 565 awhp with a paper filter. With the hks the power jumped to 587 awhp. Not really that surprising in my opinion because the stock airbox and filter surface area was designed for 280 hp at the crank stock. Nevertheless it's an example of how much of a restriction a paper filter can become.

    I like the green and it'll stay in until my wheels come off for winter and the paper will go back in. I beaty car up lag night including a co wokers 2011 5.0L on the highway several times but I can't attribute anything to the filter really. I'd like to believe it helped a bit at freeway speeds and with the chill cold air my ss was laying the beat down

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    From what I found the method is very similar to k&n but instead of aerosol you have a tube of oil that you apply down each pleat. It seems like it's a little better way to control how much oil is being applied. I think k&n started offering oil in a bottle based on greens success in Europe but then again its just a guess.

    I think if you are against a k&n a green is not that much better in that it's just like a k&n but just a slightly better filter with a better build.

    I wanted to try the amsoil but I kept getting their black and white advertisement flyers that looked like they were being sold in the 1950s. I really wonder about their advertising dept and their strategies. I think I will end up trying it sooner or later ( the nanofiber one )
    Black? White? Advertisement fliers?

    Have you tried the internet?

    How about YouTube?

    **edited for links**
    Last edited by 0rion; 10-26-2010 at 09:06 PM.

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    Member Blue28's Avatar
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    I finally went with the AMSoil air filter, fits good, no oiling, just vacuum/blow it out with a shop vac.

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    Senior Member INMY01TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    Gains from air filters=zero
    This. I've ran my car at the track with NO filter and didn't gain anything. I run a Purolator paper filter and throw it away when it gets dirty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CompSyn View Post
    Black? White? Advertisement fliers?

    Have you tried the internet?

    How about YouTube?
    no non-sponsor links

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    Member SSickLS1's Avatar
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    what about a blackwing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSickLS1 View Post
    what about a blackwing?
    a blackwing filter is still a paper element if i am not mistaken..still no gain.

  17. #17
    Member SSickLS1's Avatar
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    does anyone have dyno graphs/timeslips with both paper vs kn filters ?

  18. #18
    38 of 139 PontiacFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSickLS1 View Post
    what about a blackwing?
    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    a blackwing filter is still a paper element if i am not mistaken..still no gain.
    The ORIGINAL SLP/Donaldson Blackwing filter was a Paper filter element made by the Donaldson Corp. P543298.
    No longer made, harder than hell to find any leftover stock anywhere.
    (Except my garage cabinet where I have a few held!)

    The NEW 'Blackwing' filter element that SLP pushes is similar to the K&N design. I wouldn't ever use it, ...

  19. #19
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Amsoil filters rock IMO! Been rocking one for a few thousand miles and clean out is a breeze. I always have a clean air filter in the car. Just low pressure shop air and blow it out. Fits great and looks great in my book.


    PS: I agree also, that there is no hp gain in filters. Just keeping the motor cleaner. Maybe a gain over a super dirty filter compared to a new/clean filter but we are talking a hp or 2
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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSickLS1 View Post
    does anyone have dyno graphs/timeslips with both paper vs kn filters ?
    if you have noticed in this thread..you will not see any difference time slip wise..and any "differences" you would see in a dyno would be well within the fluctuation range of dyno readouts anyways

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