Will 10% ethanol mess with my tune (or NITROUS?)

**Intrepidman** · 02-25-2011, 09:08 AM

So I was talking to my local gas bar today, after noticing the shiny new "all fuel may now contain 10% ethanol" sign, and he tells me that in this area all fuel will now be E10 at all stations according to some new regulation.
To be just a little more confusing, apparently in the past some pumps at some stations have been running straight gas, others E5, and on occasion some have even had E10 but there was never any consistency or signage.

I know E10 isn't the end of the world...but don't ask me to act like I'm thrilled about it.

I'm just interested in knowing
1) if my tune would benefit from adjusting, as it was done a few years ago when the gas was almost certainly 100% real gas.

2) If I start running a 100hp shot of nitrous (with a tune of course), should I worry at all about what is in my fuel tank - by that I mean, should I be absolutely certain that I have the same pure gas or E10 in the tank all the time after having the nitrous tuned using one fuel or the other. (Is a bit of a concern as local stations seem to be in a transitional state...and even if E10 becomes standard here, it may not be elsewhere, if I travel)

**Sarge** · 02-26-2011, 01:58 AM

Most 93 octane does not have the corn juice.

**20ws6speed01** · 02-26-2011, 03:01 AM

Here in Florida it's been found as high as 21% at the pump..It can eat up fuel system's...I've seen it myself while working for Chrysler.

**Intrepidman** · 02-26-2011, 11:18 AM

Actually Sarge, there is no such thing as 93 octane within a few hundred miles of here ... and if there were, the new regulations would require it to be polluted as well :-(

The only good thing about the regulations is that once everyone fully complies, which could take god knows how long, all fuel will be the same 10%, no guessing as to what is going in the tank. ... but Damn that 10%!

**Firebirdjones** · 02-26-2011, 02:17 PM

Feel lucky that it's only 10% at the moment.

They are trying to push 15% through legislature. Eventually I see everyone having it.

And yes,,,the more ethanol you have in the fuel, the more it affects things. It's corrosive for starters, doesn't burn as efficiently (especially cold) and you need more of it. And yes it can require changes in the tune. In a nutshell,,,more corn juice means you need to fatten up the mixture to compensate. You lose MPG.

**camaroluvr447** · 02-28-2011, 02:19 AM

Would an additive such as MMO help at all? With preserving the fuel system I mean.

**Sarge** · 02-28-2011, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Feel lucky that it's only 10% at the moment.

They are trying to push 15% through legislature. Eventually I see everyone having it.

And yes,,,the more ethanol you have in the fuel, the more it affects things. It's corrosive for starters, doesn't burn as efficiently (especially cold) and you need more of it. And yes it can require changes in the tune. In a nutshell,,,more corn juice means you need to fatten up the mixture to compensate. You lose MPG.

They (Lawmakers) killed the 15% thing.

**Sarge** · 02-28-2011, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by camaroluvr447

Would an additive such as MMO help at all? With preserving the fuel system I mean.

Yes. TCW3 is better overall though.

**SSnow** · 02-28-2011, 06:48 AM

Originally Posted by Sarge

Most 93 octane does not have the corn juice.

I'm not so sure about that Sarge. Since they finally got rid of MTBE (nasty stuff) as an oxidizer in fuel they needed something to use as a substitute, especially in winter months. For this reason you may see it at least part of the year in all fuels. Also keep in mind that ethanol has a higher octane than gasoline and as such acts as a booster.
The farm lobby saw an opportunity and leaned on the last administration to beef up the requirement. Now with grain and corn prices pushing the inflation button, lawmakers have second thoughts about increasing required levels of ethanol.

**vette0009** · 02-28-2011, 07:09 AM

Its Coming whether you want it or not

Watch the second and third video

http://wn.com/e85

In fact its here

105 Octane E85

http://wn.com/Top_Alcohol

**Firebirdjones** · 02-28-2011, 11:17 AM

You know who is paying for that advertisement,,,right?? So take it with a grain of salt.

I find it funny at the end how they briefly mention they saw slight concern with the fuel delivery but didn't go into detail at all.
Do these idiots realize that 85% ethanol requires a much larger supply of fuel to compensate?? Larger injectors, different tune up, in some cases the stock pump won't keep up with large demands.
I can't believe they shoved this crap in a non E-85 vehicle. There is a reason GM doesn't warranty a non E-85 vehicle if you pump this shit in the tank.

I also found it interesting that they have been talking about pushing more than 10%, yet they showed a gas station already supplying your choice of 10%, 20% 30% and then the 85%.
No thanks, I'd rather have my octane the old fassion way. Unfortunately those days have been gone since the 60's. It's only going to get worse.

**vette0009** · 02-28-2011, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

You know who is paying for that advertisement,,,right?? So take it with a grain of salt.

I find it funny at the end how they briefly mention they saw slight concern with the fuel delivery but didn't go into detail at all.
Do these idiots realize that 85% ethanol requires a much larger supply of fuel to compensate?? Larger injectors, different tune up, in some cases the stock pump won't keep up with large demands.
I can't believe they shoved this crap in a non E-85 vehicle. There is a reason GM doesn't warranty a non E-85 vehicle if you pump this shit in the tank.

I also found it interesting that they have been talking about pushing more than 10%, yet they showed a gas station already supplying your choice of 10%, 20% 30% and then the 85%.
No thanks, I'd rather have my octane the old fassion way. Unfortunately those days have been gone since the 60's. It's only going to get worse.

Naw I hear yah

And I see motives on both sides of the Coin

But I'm going to Embrace it Because its here, and it's 105 octane,

So I'm going to make it work

Also it Keeps the money here at Home instead of sending it abroad,

I can run more compression on it , A more aggressive Cam and still pass smog,

Las Vegas is just beginning to embrace it and that will make it easy for me to source it,

http://e85vehicles.com/e85-Nevada.htm

**SSnow** · 02-28-2011, 01:08 PM

Indy cars had been running methanol for years (man what a buzz you could get from the stands!) and more recently ethanol. No complaints on making horsepower there.

**Firebirdjones** · 02-28-2011, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by SSnow

Indy cars had been running methanol for years (man what a buzz you could get from the stands!) and more recently ethanol. No complaints on making horsepower there.

Those teams have money to blow. It never was about the HP. It has other issues.
Nascar is now running a blend of ethanol, and they are saying the same thing, fuel mileage is uncertain, they are burning more fuel than before. I've noticed quite a few engines letting go in only the first 2 races this year, some were complaining the engines were going too lean when they breathed the throttle. The engine tuning guys have their hands full.
But they don't have to worry about moisture collected from the ethanol,,,since they bring in a fresh supply of ethanol based fuel at every track that each team runs right off the trucks. Not crap that has been sitting around for a month or more in some underground tank.
They also don't have to worry about corrosion in the fuel system anyway, or other engine wear, these things only run 500 miles and are completely torn down, nice try though

**cookseyb** · 02-28-2011, 05:27 PM

We are burning up our food supply in the name of GREEN, there is no way this is cost effective in the long run. California has set all these STUPID rules and the rest of the country is blindly following along. There is NO Way diesel should be more expensive than gasoline except for the "Reformulation" that is required there that is effecting the whole country. I'll get off my box, Bill

**vette0009** · 02-28-2011, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by cookseyb

We are burning up our food supply in the name of GREEN, there is no way this is cost effective in the long run. California has set all these STUPID rules and the rest of the country is blindly following along. There is NO Way diesel should be more expensive than gasoline except for the "Reformulation" that is required there that is effecting the whole country. I'll get off my box, Bill

Naw I agree with you about the diesel thing,

I'm not a truck driver but I know a few and its really hard for them to make a Buck these days,

As far as us Burning our food, Thats not true,

The E85 I will run comes from Sugarcane ,

Most of the E85 in the US is made from Feedstock Corn used to feed livestock

Once the Glucose is removed for Processing then the rest of the corn is still used for feed,

Also California Doesn't have many E85 Gas stations, There is only 1 in the Los Angeles Area, And a few more in out lying areas

Other states in our Union are Much more the leader as far as New fuel technology goes,

Then they Help California lol

A lot of stereotypes Exist about California

**Firebirdjones** · 03-01-2011, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by vette0009

A lot of stereotypes Exist about California

My wife was born and raised out there since the 50's. I have family still living there as well. That state isn't what it used to be. Most of the stereotypes I find true. That's why alot of them get the hell outta dodge.

I just wish all you guys would quit moving to Arizona.

**Firebirdjones** · 03-01-2011, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by cookseyb

We are burning up our food supply in the name of GREEN, there is no way this is cost effective in the long run. California has set all these STUPID rules and the rest of the country is blindly following along. There is NO Way diesel should be more expensive than gasoline except for the "Reformulation" that is required there that is effecting the whole country. I'll get off my box, Bill

I'll agree here, Even though vette0009 mentions how it's not affecting the actual food supply via the actual manufacturing process, retailers are still using it as an excuse to raise food costs everywhere. Even in states that aren't really supporting the E85, so we all are feeling that affect, and it sucks.

I also agree, diesel fuel should be cheaper, and when they first starting pushing it in pedestrian transportation,,,that was the case, it "WAS" cheaper.
Now that crap is .20 cents more a gallon than high test gasoline, for fuel that isn't as refined.

I can only wonder if E85 will follow the same path once the entire country is accustomed to it. Make it look good in the beginning, then when it becomes difficult to find regular gas, the E85 takes a price hike.
Just thinking outloud here on my part, I'm seeing a pattern here.
Only time will tell.

**vette0009** · 03-01-2011, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I'll agree here, Even though vette0009 mentions how it's not affecting the actual food supply via the actual manufacturing process, retailers are still using it as an excuse to raise food costs everywhere. Even in states that aren't really supporting the E85, so we all are feeling that affect, and it sucks.

I also agree, diesel fuel should be cheaper, and when they first starting pushing it in pedestrian transportation,,,that was the case, it "WAS" cheaper.
Now that crap is .20 cents more a gallon than high test gasoline, for fuel that isn't as refined.

I can only wonder if E85 will follow the same path once the entire country is accustomed to it. Make it look good in the beginning, then when it becomes difficult to find regular gas, the E85 takes a price hike.
Just thinking outloud here on my part, I'm seeing a pattern here.
Only time will tell.

Its primarily made from sugar cane dude lol

Also as of right now, We pumping billions of our dollars into the Arab World ...

Speaking For myself::::: I Buy American *****

My Kids are Marine Corp,

On occasion I buy something made in China, But I am pay nothing for it,

Because thats what its worth to me, NOTHING

I dont Dig sending my money to China , Because I know their Strategy is to enter our Market Cheap, Put the American business man out of business, Then corner the Market and inflate the price to its former LEVEL,

Except now you have an unemployed American and Shitt quality product,

Ethanol is already here, It is in a lot of Folks tanks right now,

My game is this::: And I'm Cool if it's not for you,

I can buy ethanol @ 105 octane, And Further Employ one of my fellow Americans, Who will pay taxes, Buy a house, Buy A new car, Feed his Family Etc:Etc:

Or I can Keep riding the Roller coaster at the gas Pump,

And keep sending my Cash$$$$$ to HabeeB in Saudia Arabia

And everytime He Burps,Farts Or Shitt's Himself = Weak America ~

I get to pay Higher prices at the pumps $$$$$$$

Also I get to Pay higher prices for Durable Goods,Because my Pal the truck driver is paying more for Diesel fuel Now,

Higher fuel prices also inflate production costs here, (Something I know A lot about) Which leads to layoffs/inflation if business is slow

By buying E85 or Even E100 I keep all my cash here,

And to Hell with OPEC and Habeeb lol

By the time were done he wont even be able to sell me Silica sand @ 2¢ A pound to make Glass lol

**Firebirdjones** · 03-01-2011, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by vette0009

Its primarily made from sugar cane dude lol

Yes I'm aware of that,,,,dude, I wasn't questioning that. But that's not stopping the markets from charging more for food regardless,,,that was my point. They are also talking of raising food prices "because" of the cost of gas to haul it. Either way, we pay for it.