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what's the deal people?!!

This is a discussion on what's the deal people?!! within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; So, I had a super fast mitsu eclipse... Turbo from the factory and quick for what it was. Then the ...

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    01 M6 SS Turbo

    what's the deal people?!!

    So, I had a super fast mitsu eclipse... Turbo from the factory and quick for what it was. Then the mod itch! Online and there she was, if you wanted your eclipse to make 600hp, heres the turbo and all the supporting fuel/engine mods you need. It was that easy. Well that's done and sold, and here I am with the V8 crowd cause everyone in town thought "man, if you built such a fast 4 banger, imagine what you could do with a V8!!". It made sense to me so I bought the 01 SS I have right now. The thing is this though: What is the more OBVIOUS way to make HP(N/A, S/C, Turbo, or No2) with the ls1 that everyone agrees on? I see ati's procharger at 8psi on stock motor and it makes the same hp as the STS turbo kit at 5psi(no parasitic drag?) It seems that with stock c.i., people who are bolting on 3-4K worth of intake, headers, cams and tuning are ending up with less whp than the guy with a bolt on ati or turbo on a stock motor... So really, can such an upgrade path for the v8 cars exist? I really don't mean to bash on peoples setups or anything, but WHY would you do a CAM ONLY car? and if the cam only is netting then 400WHP, why isn't that the ONLY way to go! pretty good hp per $ you know. I'd just like to see the BEST way to go with the most HP to gain in a methodical order. it doesn't seem like there is such a list...can anyone help? And don't say "search", cause there's not a sticky that covers topic in that sense. There should be a "start here" then "end up here" with hp ozzing out of your car. Or is every type of induction a tie with the ls1?

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    Member SSpdDmon's Avatar
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    SOM
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    Usually, people start with bolt-ons. If they go to an STS or an ATI setup once they have headers, LS6 intake (pre-'01 cars), etc., it runs you more at least $4,000 by the time your said and done. A cam only swap can be done for about $1200 after springs, pushrods, cam, gaskets, fluids and a tune if you know where to look. What you don't get with the cam is the torque of a forced induction setup. So, you have to ask yourself....is the torque and marginal hp you're missing out on worth the $2800? Most say no.

    Besides, a cam'd car at idle sounds f**king bad@$$ and even better at WOT with the right exhaust!!!

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    Story of My Life!! BIG D's SS's Avatar
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    And a lot of people want the look factor when you pull up in a cammed late model car. My 00 SS had cam, headers, gears, susp, and tons of other mods. A lot of people have the idea of a stroker motor. There is not a easy list as for what cam, headers or whatever. There is too many variables in these cars as what are you looking for in a cam or stall or whatever.

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    Member danziger's Avatar
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    Nobody will agree on an "obvious" way to make HP past simple bolt-ons. I like a nasty stroker with a shot of nitrous on top. Somebody else may like a centri-blower. Some other guy would say front-mounted turbo to be countered by the guy with the rear-mounted turbo. The best thing to do is to lay out your long term goals and devise a path to get there. That way you aren't buying/building more than once...

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    01 M6 SS Turbo

    that building more than once is the thing that is bugging me. So I turbo it, and hate it...take off turbo and go all motor. oppps, that wasn't right either, okay supercharger! Nope wrong again... I'm sorry, the correct answer was nitrous! Thanks for playing!

    Yeah, I see what your saying about the na being alittle cheaper. But I think a person would want as much torque as they can get right, as that's what really gets the car moving! I think I'll like the turbo.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    be like Ed..... just do it all. Stroked, blown, and sprayed making 666HP and 734 ft/lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    be like Ed..... just do it all. Stroked, blown, and sprayed making 666HP and 734 ft/lbs.
    that would be so badass to say u have 666hp

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    Member danziger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    that building more than once is the thing that is bugging me. So I turbo it, and hate it...take off turbo and go all motor. oppps, that wasn't right either, okay supercharger! Nope wrong again... I'm sorry, the correct answer was nitrous! Thanks for playing!

    Yeah, I see what your saying about the na being alittle cheaper. But I think a person would want as much torque as they can get right, as that's what really gets the car moving! I think I'll like the turbo.
    Well I don't really have a lot of experience with F-body turbos, so I can only direct you to the sponsors or the FI section, both here and on that "other" LS1 board...

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Lot of people just start modding....no idea where the end game is nor what in the hell they are trying to build...so they waste alot of money and time.....what is it you are trying to build? A street beast? 1/4 miler? Road Racer/AutoX? From there folks can share with you their personal experiance and success/failures with certain mods they used for that particular mod program. Then you have distinct groups of folks who are on the naturally aspirated bandwagon versus the FI/Spray folks....everybody can end up at the same place...just different routes....so define your goal firstly....then money comes into play....then the purpose of the car....is it a daily driver/garage queen/weekend warrior etc. You can blow/spray/stroke anything and make horsepower....how are you going to get it to the ground? Rear Diff choices/gears etc to marry all this newfound RWHP need defined and put into the equation.....
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    my question to you guys is very long term I would love to put TT on my LS1 however until I have the cash for that I'd like to have toys put on my car. What I'm getting at here is I personally want to do a few mods, intake, exhaust, H/C, free mods and what not... would you guys consider that a waste of time if I intend on putting on TT or is it a good way to free up that power when I do put TT... Furthermore, whats a good H/C setup for TT?

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    Senior Member greatwhiteZ28's Avatar
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    if your looking for the cheapest and most bang for your buck get a 150 wet shot which these LS1's can handle with ease a nice tune and all the saftey parameters to go with that, and when you want to maximize your set up from that you get a new cam to compliement the NX set up for a real proper HP set up

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    Member danziger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bouvs View Post
    my question to you guys is very long term I would love to put TT on my LS1 however until I have the cash for that I'd like to have toys put on my car. What I'm getting at here is I personally want to do a few mods, intake, exhaust, H/C, free mods and what not... would you guys consider that a waste of time if I intend on putting on TT or is it a good way to free up that power when I do put TT... Furthermore, whats a good H/C setup for TT?
    The problem lies in that a heads/cam set-up for a turbo will be hugely different than for N/A and may not benefit you until the turbos are actually on. Chamber size, overlap and other factors that work great with F/I, may not work well N/A.

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    Retired NOT tired SteveC's Avatar
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    I think extreeme modding of these vehicles is truley a waste of money. I own a 01 Z28 with Y3000, 3.73 gears, and my numbers are as follows 285RWHP/325RWTQ (@5400RPM). I have upgraded the rear suspension, and subframe connectors.

    The vehicle goes sideways out of 1st (torque steer) on aggressive throttle, easily chirps second gear, and goes a bit sidways into third, this is with 285X35ZR18 tires all the way around, my point is "when is enough, enough?". There is no doubt in my mind that I can kill myself in this vehicle.

    There are people on this board that have VERY high horsepower/torque setups, that are on their 3rd or 4th motor, they are never going to get out of the vehicle what they have invested, and then what happens after year 10 when structural fatigue sets in?, now you have an expensive old vehicle.

    This is my personal opinion, and I certainly do not want to offend any posters on this board.

    SteveC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Lot of people just start modding....no idea where the end game is nor what in the hell they are trying to build...so they waste alot of money and time.....what is it you are trying to build? A street beast? 1/4 miler? Road Racer/AutoX? From there folks can share with you their personal experiance and success/failures with certain mods they used for that particular mod program. Then you have distinct groups of folks who are on the naturally aspirated bandwagon versus the FI/Spray folks....everybody can end up at the same place...just different routes....so define your goal firstly....then money comes into play....then the purpose of the car....is it a daily driver/garage queen/weekend warrior etc. You can blow/spray/stroke anything and make horsepower....how are you going to get it to the ground? Rear Diff choices/gears etc to marry all this newfound RWHP need defined and put into the equation.....
    As a new member on here, something that would be very useful would be a "sticky" with different modding programs.

    I've read the stickies on here - and they are very informative. And I'm sure with the wealth of knowledge on this site, someone could come up with:

    Mod Program A: The Street Beast (M6 and A4)
    Mod Program B: 1/4 Miler (M6 and A4)
    Mod Program C: Road Racer (M6 and A4)

    I know a lot of these programs would have basics in common, but past a certain point, they branch off. After spending two days on here I knew that a LID and catback were the most common mods. Then headers. Then cam and heads. Then custom tune.

    But with an abundance of parts for these cars, its hard to know exactly how each upgrade compliments (or hurts) the other modifications that are done.

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    Member danziger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    I think extreeme modding of these vehicles is truley a waste of money. I own a 01 Z28 with Y3000, 3.73 gears, and my numbers are as follows 285RWHP/325RWTQ (@5400RPM). I have upgraded the rear suspension, and subframe connectors.

    The vehicle goes sideways out of 1st (torque steer) on aggressive throttle, easily chirps second gear, and goes a bit sidways into third, this is with 285X35ZR18 tires all the way around, my point is "when is enough, enough?". There is no doubt in my mind that I can kill myself in this vehicle.

    There are people on this board that have VERY high horsepower/torque setups, that are on their 3rd or 4th motor, they are never going to get out of the vehicle what they have invested, and then what happens after year 10 when structural fatigue sets in?, now you have an expensive old vehicle.

    This is my personal opinion, and I certainly do not want to offend any posters on this board.

    SteveC
    I can see your point to a certain extent as my car can be frustrating at its level of modification, but it never fails to make me smile when I roll into the gas. My power level is way overkill for the street and, for that matter, my Z28's suspension. However, that doesn't make the car any less fun. I didn't buy the car as an investment and frankly I believe treating cars like stocks (Thanks for nothing, Barrett-Jackson!) is ruining the hobby...

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patricksd View Post
    As a new member on here, something that would be very useful would be a "sticky" with different modding programs.

    I've read the stickies on here - and they are very informative. And I'm sure with the wealth of knowledge on this site, someone could come up with:

    Mod Program A: The Street Beast (M6 and A4)
    Mod Program B: 1/4 Miler (M6 and A4)
    Mod Program C: Road Racer (M6 and A4)

    I know a lot of these programs would have basics in common, but past a certain point, they branch off. After spending two days on here I knew that a LID and catback were the most common mods. Then headers. Then cam and heads. Then custom tune.

    But with an abundance of parts for these cars, its hard to know exactly how each upgrade compliments (or hurts) the other modifications that are done.
    Excellent point. I'll get to work on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Excellent point. I'll get to work on it.
    That is awesome - I look forward to reading it!

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    tattoo artist,esquire sic2001's Avatar
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    Great idea! Im really looking forward to finding out how much money I wasted

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    Some of us just like old Souped up Camaros. We don't ever plan to put in a roll cage or strip out our seats. We grew up driving 67s,68s, a 69 with a 427 BB in it, 82 Berlinetta, and now I got a 98Z28 which is 9 years old. And I might take it out to test and tune but mostly I drive it for the pure pleasure of it. I haven't ever owned a Turbo anything and don't plan on it now.

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    no more 4th gen secondgearscratch's Avatar
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    obviously there are many different routes to go, but in reality the lesser of the three evils is nitrous. its simple to install, easily tunable and you can safely blow alot of horsepower (150 for example).


    in my opinion, there is nothing more beautiful than watching an ls1 huff 15 pounds of boost from a big diameter turbo. the torque is plentiful and drawn out, and the set up options are endless. the power is endless. with this build comes a complete rebuild of the short block and a good bit of tuning and suspension work to handle all the power. with a large single turbo you could potentially have 800 hp, but unless your planning on a powerglide and a whole new suspension that kind of power will be wasted. then again, running a low psi will still yield a ridiculous power increase.

    superchargers are nifty because of the simplicity. 7 pounds without changing internals and you have around 500 horsepower with complementing bolt ons. thats good for solid 10 second quarter mile times. a supercharger whine is nice, and you can go the centrifugal route (easier installation) or the roots type (magnacharger).

    personally i would go big cube naturally aspirated. nothing quite like a cammed ls1. scary.

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