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What do you think of this engine?

This is a discussion on What do you think of this engine? within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I have a 2002 WS6. Need to replace my engine because it has an bad engine knock (the shop said ...

  1. #1
    Member NJ2002WS.6's Avatar
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    Metallic Pewter
    2002 Trans Am WS.6

    What do you think of this engine?

    I have a 2002 WS6. Need to replace my engine because it has an bad engine knock (the shop said it sounds like a diesel engine without oil). I have zero mechanical skills and have a friend that can drop an engine for $800. I looked into Jasper Engines for another re manufactured LS1. Seems great with an awesome warranty and reputation. Or I came across this company and engine:

    https://www.sandjengines.com/rebuilt...ines/GMC-383HP

    I have briefly heard of this through the forum but have some questions. Would this bolt right on? Do I need to upgrade any parts, clutch, computer,transmission, or a tune to make this engine work?

    Please let me know or have advice what to do.

  2. #2
    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    I think you are looking at a SBC engine and not an LS1. Is the 800.00 for R&R or just removal ?
    My ride is a 2002 Camaro SS SLP #3296 with 30k, LTH, 3" Y, CME, Frost tune, K&N, ported TB, Blackwing lid, Bellows, MSD, Denso Iridium, and 85mm MAF, Bilsteins, Eibach springs, SLP strut brace, Adj. Panhard, TA Girdle, UMI, Pro 5.0, Nitto NT555
    My wife has a 2004 GTO with the rare SAP, 18" wheels, K&N Cold Air System, MSD, Ported TB, Frost tune, Denso Iridium, Flowmaster cat-back, 3200 Yank, 75k

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    that's a sbc not a LS1

    clicking on the site for LS1 and it tells me to call to order

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    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    You can shortblock it and transfer over all your existing stuff. Otherwise, there are several suppliers for LS1 engines -- including our site sponsor, GM Parts Direct.

  5. #5
    Member NJ2002WS.6's Avatar
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    Metallic Pewter
    2002 Trans Am WS.6

    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    You can shortblock it and transfer over all your existing stuff. Otherwise, there are several suppliers for LS1 engines -- including our site sponsor, GM Parts Direct.

    That is exactly why I asked. The $800 is the swap an engine out and put another complete one in. I will have to see what he will charge to swap over all the parts onto a refurbished block. GM Direct? What do they charge for a LS1? Is it rebuilt, new, refurbished?

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    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    They have an F-body drop in engine. Not sure of all the details, but hit the link on the right side of the page, click the "Performance" tab, open the catalogue and head to page 168.

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    Member RONS98TA's Avatar
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    Not sure of your position on a budget, but I think now is the perfect time to upgrade to some high performance parts, or a completely higher performance engine altogether.

  8. #8
    Member NJ2002WS.6's Avatar
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    Metallic Pewter
    2002 Trans Am WS.6

    Quote Originally Posted by RONS98TA View Post
    Not sure of your position on a budget, but I think now is the perfect time to upgrade to some high performance parts, or a completely higher performance engine altogether.
    I have a budget if $4500-$5000. That has also crossed my mind. I thought LS6 or something faster. What do you guys recommend and where would I get it?
    SLP Lid with K&N, Corsa

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    TS&P has short block 383 & 408 strokers for $3900 (-) cam

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    Member NJ2002WS.6's Avatar
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    Metallic Pewter
    2002 Trans Am WS.6

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    TS&P has short block 383 & 408 strokers for $3900 (-) cam
    With the 383 can I swap all my accessories over? Transmission and clutch can handle it? How much Hp? And does it need a tune?

  11. #11
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Navy Blue Metallic
    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    Depending on intake, cam and heads a 383 can get real close to 500RWHP mark and the 408 - mid to high 500's


    Cam - most go for $375, custom grind run $425

    Tune - YES

    Accessories are interchangeable on all GEN III & IV blocks.

    Transmission?

    Clutch - may need to upgrade depending on current miles and brand.

    Auto - a stall at minimum will be needed (tune for this too) and recommended. 4L60E can handle it but the 4L80E is better. The 60 can be built up but for the cost I recommend saving up for the 80.




    One more thing you need to take into account. More pwr = more TQ going to the POS 10 bolt rear end. You can run it for a while and be easy (no hard launches from a dig with manuals) but if you do get one of these you need to start saving for a 9" or 12 bolt rear to get full benefit that will last.

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    Member NJ2002WS.6's Avatar
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    Metallic Pewter
    2002 Trans Am WS.6

    That is all good stuff thank you. With all the add ons though on top of the $3900 and labor it will be too much for me. That all sounds great. And I would be lying if I didn't want a 400-500 HP car. The fact is this car is really just a side car that I take out on nice days and not to the track. I bought it in 2005 when I was 23 and has a sentimental value as you can appreciate. I would really like to get the car on the road at this point. It's been sitting for 2 years, I finally got enough money to fix it, ordered a used engine that claimed to be tested and refurbished from LKQ online and when it was installed had an engine knock. Then finally after arguing they allowed me to keep the engine and gave me my $1900 back. So I am looking to do this right, since I have been burned bad and am out $2000 labor, where if I can get an faster engine for around the same price as the $3200 Jasper Re manufactured engine then awesome. If not, I might just get that or the company S&J in the link above has them for $2800 ($800 core) with a 7 year/100,000 mile warranty with a 90 labor warranty. Or even ask what GM Direct offers since they are at $3200 as well. So if you know any faster engines around that $3200 price give or take a couple hundred dollars more I am all ears.

  13. #13
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    For the price limit you set, you are going to have to do some fancy shopping to finish the project turn key. There used to be LS6 crate engines for about that price range but they have since dried up, and the few floating around are fetching $6k now.
    Even if you start with a $3900 short block from Texas Speed, you'll be at the $6,000 mark by the time you top it off and turn the key. I honestly don't know any cheaper way to do it anymore, these LS engines just aren't that cheap to play with despite what all the magazine articles tell you.

    Hopefully you find a reputable reman engine and it works out for you.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Read my 6.0 build thread in my signature.

    I so far have spent about $2800 for my build minus some shop time/fees ($625)

    I have a LQ4 from a 04' 2500 P/U

    Short Block parts that I've purchased:
    6 liter block bored to 4.005" (needed to for clearance, stock pistons were just out of clearance)
    DSS Forged Pistons
    SCAT Connecting Rods
    Rings
    Tick Polluter Stage III Cam
    CM Pushrods
    BTR Lifters
    Using stock crank
    Melling 10296 HV/HO Oil Pump
    Clevite Bearings for Main and Con Rods
    ARP Main studs
    ARP bolts for the rest of the stuff
    Gaskets - all new

    Top End - I mostly transfer the intake, injectors if it was a stock build (I have 42lbs now for the cam & heads), and accessories. I picked up a set of used 243 heads for $400. I have someone lined up to port & polish for $400 more if I choose to. Upgraded to BTR Springs that are spec for the cam & Trunion upgrade for the rockers.


    Shop fees/time:

    I had the block inspected, bored to 4.005" due to one cylinder out of clearance, block was tanked and had the cam bearings installed, the cylinder head deck was also check for flat surface (that's an important and overlook inspection. If the deck needed milling it would have cost another $165.) Rotating Assemble was also check for clearance and balanced the rods to the crank.

    To have the shop build it to short block it would have cost another $250.


    Now I spread this out over the last yr and carefully chose what to buy after talking it over with some more experience guys here. I not saying this is an easy project, far from it. Some skills are needed. But talking it out and planning is the key to a good build.

    There are many things that I spent $$$ on that you could get cheaper:

    Stock pistons, con rods, and lifters you can save a lot on compared to me. I plan on making power on a budget build. The forged pistons and rods were $150 over stock each, so why not. I'm not on a time crunch so I have time to wait (with grinding teeth and getting more impatient daily )

    You do not necessary need ARP studs & bolts for everything - For stock or close to stock, yes it's recommended, on performance builds mandatory. Keeps stuff from blowing apart.

    Cam and springs are 2 components that I recommend getting as a combo deal. That way you know they work well together.



    The big difference is I'm building it myself along with some help from a couple of guys I know (they have the tools I don't). Shops charge differently for engine swaps, don't know what prices are in your area. Should cost more then $1200 for the labor. If go this route, make sure to have it all on paper and spelled out what they will do.
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 12-05-2013 at 12:13 PM.
    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/my-6-liter-build-174257/

    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f8/my-8-8-rear-build-165553/

    6.0L Block - Forged 403 built, breaking it in , Polluter Stg3 Cam, FAST 102mm Intake, NW102 TB, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, Truck Coil Packs, LS3 Fuel Injectors, CC Pacesetter LT Headers, TS&P ORY, QTP e-Cutout, Magnaflow Muffler, 104mm Air Lid & Line Lock, Catch Can, Stage 2 T56 w/Viper shaft, PRO 5.0 Shifter, Tick MC, Monster Stg 4 Clutch, QT SFI BH, MWC DSL, UMI: SFC, PHB, LCA's, LCA Relocation Brackets & TA, Hotchkis Springs (1" Drop), YR1 Snowflake Wheels wrapped in NT555 tires & Custom Fab Ford 8.8 rear w/4.10 Yukon Gears, WSQ Hood, 3"CM Strange Eng Drive Shaft.

    Horsepower never lies, but is often lied about!

  15. #15
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Yeah and look how long it's taking When you have the time you can shop around for deals and wait till things come along. Plus all the running around and leg work and your time involved when building one on your own is also worth something.

    Plus something I would certainly budget is to take those used 243's to a reputable shop and have the guides and valves checked for proper clearance or you'll have an oil sucker on your hands, afterwards a valve job is a must, and a good one is expensive. Might end up shaving the heads if not flat but that's relatively cheap. In all if you're lucky and they don't need much you can get out of there for $3-$400, but if they need any guides and/or valves replaced you can get upwards of $800 or more pretty quick. Starts to make those ported 243's from Texas Speed look pretty good :wink:

    I would have also decked the block even if your shop says it's flat and doesn't need it. Simply because it's best to build the engine (any engine) with the pistons at zero deck for better quench to promote swirl in the combustion process, which in turn fights detonation and makes more power due to a more efficient combustion.
    If not decked in most OEM cases the pistons wind up about .020 to .025 down in the hole.

    Just a couple things I see when glancing over it...

  16. #16
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Thks FBJ for the info....


    I'm still thinking of sending my heads to AI and have them work their magic.

    It always comes down to money on how much you want to spend to go fast....doesn't it.
    pajeff02 likes this.

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    Member RONS98TA's Avatar
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    Jasper makes a really good "stock" engine that will last you a good while with no issues. BUT as stated before (unless i'am wrong) they only make stock engines with stock parts. No extra horsepower over stock specs. If you want a reliable engine with a good warranty, go that route. From what i've read though, I think you want something with more H/P over stock.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Thks FBJ for the info....


    I'm still thinking of sending my heads to AI and have them work their magic.

    It always comes down to money on how much you want to spend to go fast....doesn't it.
    Yeah no matter what it is, it always comes down to money

    You'll have something that will run nice and be proud of when it's done.

  19. #19
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RONS98TA View Post
    Jasper makes a really good "stock" engine that will last you a good while with no issues. BUT as stated before (unless i'am wrong) they only make stock engines with stock parts. No extra horsepower over stock specs. If you want a reliable engine with a good warranty, go that route. From what i've read though, I think you want something with more H/P over stock.
    Ya know, thinking along these lines isn't a bad way to go either, and if you want more power with little money spent, just stick a mild camshaft package in it before you drop it in the car, a good dyno tune, and you'll have something that makes plenty of power for a daily driver without too much cash outlay.

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    Senior Member kingls1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya know, thinking along these lines isn't a bad way to go either, and if you want more power with little money spent, just stick a mild camshaft package in it before you drop it in the car, a good dyno tune, and you'll have something that makes plenty of power for a daily driver without too much cash outlay.
    Crane cams has a new series of cams Power Max LS direct fit cams requiring no other valve train modifications with significant horsepower and torque gains. Ad in November GM high tech. Page 81
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