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Umi sfc

This is a discussion on Umi sfc within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I've never noticed my 3 points. Mine are also black on a black car, so it could be the blending. ...

  1. #21
    Electrical Engineer KMdef9's Avatar
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    I've never noticed my 3 points. Mine are also black on a black car, so it could be the blending.

    What makes them stand out, if anything, is they're nice and shiny, unlike most/all of my underbody.

  2. #22
    Member My00Z28's Avatar
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    haha i left for like an hour and a half and got real good info lol thanks i think i might go with the tubular SFC's and my camaro is red so red will work great!

  3. #23
    Member My00Z28's Avatar
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    with tubular can u bolt and weld them or is bolting good enough?

  4. #24
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    You could always buy the bolt ins to make things easy for you now,,,,,they can always be welded in later on when it's more convenient for you.

  5. #25
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    UMI got back in touch with me.

    Said they would sell me 2 point weld ins $15 less without the powder coating.

    Problem is, I can't find the price on their website.

  6. #26
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    powder coating would make a good solid basecoat for what ever color you want to paint them

  7. #27
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjsingle1 View Post
    powder coating would make a good solid basecoat for what ever color you want to paint them
    I'm weight concious

    Besides, it's difficult to scuff with 400 properly to get any type of paint to stick. You just about have to get out the DA with 220 and go to town with it Besides that,,,I'd have to strip the ends to bare steel anyway to weld these things on properly, just seems like a waste of powder coat to me.

    It's alot of prep work for no real gain. I'd rather hit the bare steel with etching primer and go from there.

  8. #28
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I calculated this once...

    Jeff, do you remember? I don't recall what thread that was in.

  9. #29
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Let's see if I can remember how that was explained to me.

    Tubular tubing is stronger then boxed tubing because it has a uniform shape that disperses the load evenly throughout the tube. With Box tubing its weakness and load focal points are the edges. Meaning the load is increase along the boxed edges.

    Now both styles are really strong. If you want really strong SFC's with a lighter weight then mild steel go Chromoly.

    Also 3 points are better then 2 point. I wish I would have gone 3 point, but I'm still happy with my 2 point UMI SFCs.
    You are incorrect. Box is stronger.

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/suspen...e-stiffer.html

  10. #30
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    You are incorrect. Box is stronger.

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/suspen...e-stiffer.html
    I read the thread, interesting read, but it really only address how box SFCs have more surface area to weld, thus making a stronger SFC. It never really explains the properties of round tubing vs square tubing.


    It simple comes down to thickness of the box/round tubing.

  11. #31
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    I read the thread, interesting read, but it really only address how box SFCs have more surface area to weld, thus making a stronger SFC. It never really explains the properties of round tubing vs square tubing.


    It simple comes down to thickness of the box/round tubing.
    Box tubing has more area, therefore making the stress less given the same force applied to both designs.

    I did the math on this some time ago in a thread here showing the strength difference between the two because as an engineer, I was curious myself.

    A 2" box design with 1/4" thickness will have more surface area than that of a 2" round circle design with 1/4" thickness.

    A 2" box: area = height X width...so it would be 2X2 = 4in^2. This is assuming it was solid. However, since it is 1/4" thick, the inside area must be removed which is 1.5" x 1.5" = 2.25 in^2.

    Total box area = 4in^2 - 2.25in^2 = 1.75in^2

    Now let's look at a tube. 2" round tube has an area of: PI*Radius^2 = 3.14 * 1"^2 = 3.14in^2 (this is the OD area). The inner area of the tube missing = PI*0.75^2 = 3.14 * 0.5625in^2 = 1.767in^2.

    Total tube area = 3.14in^2 - 1.767in^2 = 1.372in^2

    1.75in^2 is greater than 1.372in^2

    Simple math.

  12. #32
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Box tubing has more area, therefore making the stress less given the same force applied to both designs.

    I did the math on this some time ago in a thread here showing the strength difference between the two because as an engineer, I was curious myself.

    A 2" box design with 1/4" thickness will have more surface area than that of a 2" round circle design with 1/4" thickness.

    A 2" box: area = height X width...so it would be 2X2 = 4in^2. This is assuming it was solid. However, since it is 1/4" thick, the inside area must be removed which is 1.5" x 1.5" = 2.25 in^2.

    Total box area = 4in^2 - 2.25in^2 = 1.75in^2

    Now let's look at a tube. 2" round tube has an area of: PI*Radius^2 = 3.14 * 1"^2 = 3.14in^2 (this is the OD area). The inner area of the tube missing = PI*0.75^2 = 3.14 * 0.5625in^2 = 1.767in^2.

    Total tube area = 3.14in^2 - 1.767in^2 = 1.372in^2

    1.75in^2 is greater than 1.372in^2

    Simple math.


    I think we both just said the same thing. You are probably right, just stating what I was taught a long while back. Also in that thread, someone mention "If square is stronger then how come roll cages are made out of round instead of square?" My response would be because round is easier to bend then square and maintain its strength. Square Tubing can't be bended to 90 degrees like round tubing can.

  13. #33
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    You are correct. The other reason is because round tubing is indeed stronger than square tubing when it comes to "bending" moment.

    Bending moment is something a roll cage would be subjected to.

    SFC would not however.

  14. #34
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    lol glad i didnt order anything yet lol great information!

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    I also read that round tubing flexes and returns to its normal state better then square. Is this correct?


    Another thing I also read that if you use less material in round then square. If you were to increase the thickness of the round on the inside diameter it would be stronger then the square. Is that also correct?

  16. #36
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by My00Z28 View Post
    lol glad i didnt order anything yet lol great information!


    For you, Round hides up nice and tight and can't be send easily from the side, square can be seen and has more surface area to weld. You basically can weld the entire SFC if you wanted to but that would be serious overkill.

  17. #37
    Member My00Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    For you, Round hides up nice and tight and can't be send easily from the side, square can be seen and has more surface area to weld. You basically can weld the entire SFC if you wanted to but that would be serious overkill.
    ya im not too worried about seeing it my car is red so its not going to stand out too much and i like to beable to see stuff like that.... ill be ordering them after i get my LT headers installed at the end of the month!

  18. #38
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    For the record, you can barely see my 2-pt SFC and I have box design (BMR). They tuck up real nice and in order to see them you literally have to get on your hands and knees and look under the car.

    In order to determine what will be stronger, you need to do what I just did in my above post. Calculate the area per given design.

    With all things/dimensions being equal, BOX > SQUARE.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmalgar View Post
    Are you saying the 3-point sfcs are easily noticeable from normal viewing angles?
    I know you can see them on a Formula. Probably can't see them as much on a Trans Am though.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I calculated this once...

    Jeff, do you remember? I don't recall what thread that was in.

    Drawing a blank on this... but looks like you found the info.

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