Traction Trouble

**bucman1** · 04-28-2007, 06:31 PM

MY TA IS BASICALLY STOCK [not a high hp motor]WITH AN AUTO TRANNY. MY PROBLEM IS , UNDER ACCELERATION FROM A DEAD STOP OR AT A LOW SPEED, ALL SHE WANTS TO DO IS BURN OUT. SHE ALSO HAS A TENDENCY TO FISH-TAIL TO THE LEFT. I HAVE OWNED MUSCLE CARS IN THE PAST, BUT NEVER HAD ONE THAT WAS THIS SENSITIVE TO WHEEL SPIN. I PURCHASED THE CAR WIT A SET OF MICHELIN SPORT AS TIRES. I WONDER IF THESE TIRES OR CRAP OR IF I NEED A WIDER TIRE/WHEEL OR IG MY LIMITED SLIP COULD BE HAVING TROUBLE AND NOT LOCKING BOTH WHEELS. I DONT DRAG RACE, BUT WOULD LIKE A QUICKER LAUNCH.

**slims00ls1z28** · 04-28-2007, 09:05 PM

No need for all caps. Spinning out alot eh? Welcome to low end torque most Fbodies are traction limited especially on the street. Tires might be worn if its just super bad but my bet its just normal LS1's way of saying high. Fishtailing to the left is normal because both sides are spinning if only one side spun it wouldnt do that it would track straight. Wider tires won't help too much I have 315's on mine that have a 12 inch wide contact patch with the road. Dead stomp from a dead stop or anything under 30mph stomp induces the same reaction and I shouldn't be too much over stock with just my minor bolt ons. Out of curiosity what other muscle cars are you referring to the LS1 is a different beast from anything made before 1997.

**bucman1** · 04-29-2007, 09:12 AM

Lets see I'm 42 years old and have owned many cars. My past muscle cars are 67 mustang fastback[289], 1970 rs/z28 camaro[350 my favorite], 1972 olds cutless[350rocket],1972 dodge demon [340], 1972 olds cutless[built 403],plus a few projects that never saw the road. As for modern muscle, I have owned a 1998 mustang gt[4.6], 1995 z28[5.7lt1], and currently, my 1999 ta vert[ls1]. I love the old muscle cars, but the technology in the 4th gen fbody makes it such a better ride with plenty of power, smooth idle, no overheating, comfort, reliability,cornering, cold ac, affordable mpg, not to mention the great body lines. I guess i just need to learn how to baby this car from a stop or slow roll. i know this motor and my lt1 z28 motor have a lot of low end torque, but i have to say the ls1 feels much stronger than the lt1. The 4.6 was fun, but not in thes same league as the lt1 or ls1. Anyway, I was going to add a few more ponies to my ta, but if I cant hook up with the power I have now, i guess I'll just add a cat back to give my a more muscular sound and stop there. [ I was curious about the remote turbo system]

**hamburger68** · 04-30-2007, 09:57 AM

tires seem to be crucial to your problem. i had rather soft all seasons, 245/50 on a 16" rim. rarely had wheelspin. i just switched to 18" rims and 275/35 summer tires on the rear for better handling, and wheelspin got a little worse. that's on a dry road of course, wet road........
how old are your tires, maybe the rubber hardened out?

**bucman1** · 04-30-2007, 04:46 PM

I'm not sure how old the tires are. They were on the car when I bought it a few months ago. I wouldn't mind getting some wider tires, but I like the stock wheels. Which tires did you have before. Would you recommend those or maybe another tire. I would like good traction, but at an affordable price.

**LS1_TA_2002** · 04-30-2007, 05:08 PM

Futura Ultra Z's from Pep Boys.
Best performance for the price when I had em.
Better grip over stockers
Looked better than stockers
Those things lasted so long (with rotation EVERY 6000mi.) I only changed them because I got new C6 Z06 replicas with tires for a great price. When these wear out I'll be in the market for a new set of Futuras.
Do you have the stock T/A wheels? 16X8? Stock tires are 245/50-16.
I've used 245/45-16's and I think the slightly lower profile looks better.
I'm gonna be selling my OE polished aluminum rims on ebay soon. I'll post Pics of the tires. As soon as I clean them up (brake dust).

**Wesman** · 04-30-2007, 05:13 PM

See if you can fit some 275's on your stock rims. That will make a huge difference in traction.

For tire brand, I reccommend Eagle F1 D3 GS (they are awesome for summer traction) or Nitto 555's (not 555R's, those are drag radials).

Wider tires with a better compound will make the car much more driveable, you'll actually be able to wind out first gear without spinning the whole time

**bucman1** · 04-30-2007, 05:18 PM

I'll have to check out those futura ultra z's thanks

**bucman1** · 04-30-2007, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Wesman

See if you can fit some 275's on your stock rims. That will make a huge difference in traction.

For tire brand, I reccommend Eagle F1 D3 GS (they are awesome for summer traction) or Nitto 555's (not 555R's, those are drag radials).

Wider tires with a better compound will make the car much more driveable, you'll actually be able to wind out first gear without spinning the whole time

that sounds good. I wonder how wide I can go on a stock wheel?

**LS1_TA_2002** · 04-30-2007, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by bucman1

that sounds good. I wonder how wide I can go on a stock wheel?

No wider than 275! At 275mm your track width is already at 10.82in. and your rim is only 8in. wide.

**LS2Tuner** · 04-30-2007, 09:46 PM

Yeah I would vote on the 275/40/17 also.
It will give the car a nice stance.Depending on what brand you go with you might need to do a small amount of grinding on the lip.
I didn't look at where you live but if it is somewhere where it gets rain I would vote on a pair of Kuhmo 712's for the monet they are great.

The other quick easy mod you can do is put a pair of V-6 coil springs in the rear. It will not only make the hooking up night and day difference but it will also ride better.

One of the reasons why it spins so easy from a dead stop versus the older cars you have had is the low first gear..... It aids in tire spin greatly due to the ratio.

When you do get the new tires regaurdless of the size you need to go to a clean concrete parking lot and do some short burnout/holeshots playing with the tire pressure to figure out what pressure gives you the right contact area. You'll be able to look at the marks and see if the outsides are darker than increase the pressure and if the center is darker and the edged lighter than you are running too much pressure. The idea is to get a even cantact patch across the tread.

**Wheeler99WS6** · 05-01-2007, 02:08 AM

I vote for BFG KD tires. Kinda pricey but I feel they are worth it. Nice and soft when it is good and warm outside.

**Too Fast** · 05-01-2007, 03:02 AM

The Cutlass was probably the only car with an engine which had similar power to the LS1. Probably more torque too! I have owned a '67 Le Mans, '67 428 GTO, '67 400 4-SPD Firebird, and all those cars had traction problems in 1st gear. They also overheated, got 9-12 MPG, would only stop once from 70 MPH before the brakes faded, and would only go straight unless I put big swaybars on them front and rear, stiffer springs, better control arms etc. I still have a '68 drop top Le Mans, with a 400, but it is only a cruiser.

So, like Wesman said, get some 17s for your TA and put the 275 40 17 GS D3 Goodyears on it, that is what I did and they have great traction wet or dry. Car and Driver did a test on those tires and 10 others last year and the Goodyears came out on top. Not the cheapest tires, but a cut above the others. I like the factory polished wheels, I have had a lot of people at stop lights ask me if those are the factory wheels.

Oh yeah, the new LS1 cars can stop repeatedly with not much brake fade, they go around a corner nicely, NO OVERHEATING, and I have gotten over 27 MPG on 2 tanks of gas consecutively last summer driving 70-80 MPH to Texas and back!

**SteveC** · 05-01-2007, 04:16 AM

Camaro's are known for "torque steer" the feeling when you pull to the left.

Aftermarket torque arms, LCA's panhard bar, and subframe connectors will solve MOST of your problems. Look into this sight:

http://www.bmrfabrication.com

SteveC

**Wesman** · 05-01-2007, 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by SteveC

Camaro's are known for "torque steer" the feeling when you pull to the left.

Aftermarket torque arms, LCA's panhard bar, and subframe connectors will solve MOST of your problems. Look into this sight:

http://www.bmrfabrication.com

SteveC

Torque steer generally refers to Front wheel drive cars pulling the steering wheel to one side under heavy acceleration. Since one wheel gets more power or traction than the other, it will try to pull the car in that direction, and it can take some muscle to hold the wheel straight.

I think you are referring to something else by a different name, not sure what though.

**SteveC** · 05-01-2007, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Wesman

Torque steer generally refers to Front wheel drive cars pulling the steering wheel to one side under heavy acceleration. Since one wheel gets more power or traction than the other, it will try to pull the car in that direction, and it can take some muscle to hold the wheel straight.

I think you are referring to something else by a different name, not sure what though.

I respectfully disagree sir, I DO know what I am talking about, I have owned muscle cars of a wide variety for the last 40 years.

SteveC

**Too Fast** · 05-02-2007, 03:01 AM

I have always referred to torque steer as a FWD phenomenom. With poorly designed FWD the car will pull to one way or the other under heavy accelleration. But, it does this without spinning a tire. One reason why I will never buy a performance FWD car.

What Bucman is referring to is only happening when his rear tires are spinning. I guess you could call it torque steer, but it does not happen unless the rear wheels are spinning. Maybe a high horsepower drag car (over 500 HP) could induce some torque steer at the drag strip, but this is not what Bucman is referring to.

**LS1_TA_2002** · 05-02-2007, 04:28 AM

Everyone is welcome to read this if they want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steer

SteveC of particular consequence to you is the line that says, and I quote, "Note that the rear-wheel-drive vehicles do not suffer from the torque steer, since the engine is not connected to the steering gear unless it has all wheel steering."

bucman1 please read:
You have a limited slip rear and a lot of power. Once you break the rear tires loose the car (actually any rear drive car-some more than others and suspension mods help) will go either way depending on surface conditions (no sideways force exerted by spinning tires). The engine torque reaction coupled through the frame may make it go predominantly in one direction (to the left) but surface conditions could overcome that in a lot of cases. A couple of feet either way shouldn't really bother you as it isn't very far and countersteering (NOT TORQUE STEERING) to keep the car straight should work just fine. 40 years ago the drag racers used to bring their cars to the starting line at an angle so when the backend swung when they launched the car it would end up straight on the strip.
Which is why items such as this exist.
http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe...97991800017264

**bucman1** · 09-19-2007, 04:03 AM

I just bought a set of cheep fuzion zri's. They stick like glue!

**SteveC** · 09-19-2007, 06:51 AM

Originally Posted by LS1_TA_2002

Everyone is welcome to read this if they want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque_steer

SteveC of particular consequence to you is the line that says, and I quote, "Note that the rear-wheel-drive vehicles do not suffer from the torque steer, since the engine is not connected to the steering gear unless it has all wheel steering."http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe...97991800017264

I stand corrected, thanks so much for the information.

SteveC