Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25
Like Tree2Likes

Thermostat Delete?

This is a discussion on Thermostat Delete? within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I have an electric waterpump with a SBC 160* tstat in a stock LS1 tstat housing. Since I removed the ...

  1. #1
    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laurel, Maryland
    Posts
    4,977

    2000 Grand Prix GTP
    2000 Trans Am WS6 M6

    Thermostat Delete?

    I have an electric waterpump with a SBC 160* tstat in a stock LS1 tstat housing. Since I removed the HVAC system, is there any reason to keep the tstat? The car is a street car that only gets driven during nice days. It is always allowed to warm up before driving, so I see no reason to have that restriction in the cooling system.

  2. #2
    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Branchville, NJ
    Posts
    3,111

    Silver & Blue
    02 Camaro SS, 04 GTO

    Why do you want to run without a thermostat ? Your computer adjusts several things on your engine using the engine temp reading. I would at least run a 160 deg. Stat.
    My ride is a 2002 Camaro SS SLP #3296 with 30k, LTH, 3" Y, CME, Frost tune, K&N, ported TB, Blackwing lid, Bellows, MSD, Denso Iridium, and 85mm MAF, Bilsteins, Eibach springs, SLP strut brace, Adj. Panhard, TA Girdle, UMI, Pro 5.0, Nitto NT555
    My wife has a 2004 GTO with the rare SAP, 18" wheels, K&N Cold Air System, MSD, Ported TB, Frost tune, Denso Iridium, Flowmaster cat-back, 3200 Yank, 75k

  3. #3
    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laurel, Maryland
    Posts
    4,977

    2000 Grand Prix GTP
    2000 Trans Am WS6 M6

    One less thing to fail. It is also a bitch to center in the waterpump it's a tstat not made for the LS1.

  4. #4
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Cherry Point NC
    Posts
    475

    Red
    2000 Trans Am WS.6 M6

    hey fuck it bro, let the frankenbird run free hahaha

  5. #5
    James Bond Spikito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,546

    2001 3.8 Black - sold
    2000 SS Black M6

    i was under the impression that without a t-stat, your coolant will reach an equilibrium thats too high....with a t-stat, water sits in the block until and heats up, while water sits in the radiator and cools, once it hits 160 in the block, the t-stat opens, the water switches places, once the cooler water makes its way back to the t-stat, it closes, and the cycle starts over...with no t-stat, water will just free flow through. I would think that after awhile, especially if sitting still, a free flow trip through the radiator wouldnt be able to cool adequately, and youd end up with a whole system of hot water

  6. #6
    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Branchville, NJ
    Posts
    3,111

    Silver & Blue
    02 Camaro SS, 04 GTO

    A thermostat helps build coolant heat to a preset temp and maintains that temp. without a thermostat coolant is circulating all the time and it takes longer to build heat in the engine. The PCM montiors coolant temp and it sets the AF ratio for emmissions and the spark advance for economy. If you run without a thermostat you need to tell the PCM. Call Frost.

  7. #7
    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laurel, Maryland
    Posts
    4,977

    2000 Grand Prix GTP
    2000 Trans Am WS6 M6

    Thanks for the input guys...tstat will be staying put.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,170

    Black
    2000 WS6 6spd Hooker LT

    Yes keep the t-stat. Without one it can run too cool, and that wastes fuel. You said you have an electric water pump. Does it always run or does it only run on demand, that could act like a thermostat. However, I'd still like some coolant flow in the engine to not let any locallized hot spots develop.


    And the best way to warm up any engine is with mild to moderate driving the first 5-10 minutes. Then go for it! Idling a vehicle to warm it up is a big waste of fuel, unless you like to hear the it rumble/lope. Some high performance ''M'' enigines in BMW actually have a tach with a moving red line, depending on how warm the fluids are.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator
    pajeff02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, PA
    Posts
    21,576

    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    You can ditch the stat and run a restrictor -- essentially a large washer in place of the thermostat. The restrictor slows the flow of water and comes in various diameter holes. We ran one in our circle track car without any issues and it held consistent temps. Benefit of not having a stat is that it can never stick on you and overheat the engine.

  10. #10
    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laurel, Maryland
    Posts
    4,977

    2000 Grand Prix GTP
    2000 Trans Am WS6 M6

    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    You can ditch the stat and run a restrictor -- essentially a large washer in place of the thermostat. The restrictor slows the flow of water and comes in various diameter holes. We ran one in our circle track car without any issues and it held consistent temps. Benefit of not having a stat is that it can never stick on you and overheat the engine.
    Hmm...never heard of this before. Like I said, I don't need the tstat failing on me. Also, since the Meziere Water Pump uses a SBC tstat, I bet I can find a restrictor for it.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator
    pajeff02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, PA
    Posts
    21,576

    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    Absolutely. Here's an offering from Jeg's: Mr. Gasket 6126 Mr. Gasket Water Outlet Restrictor Plate Kit

  12. #12
    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laurel, Maryland
    Posts
    4,977

    2000 Grand Prix GTP
    2000 Trans Am WS6 M6

    How does that work? Different openings provide different engine temps? Is it a trial and error thing?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,170

    Black
    2000 WS6 6spd Hooker LT

    Yes exactly, different size holes give different temps, they might be able to give you a guidline for which one to use first. You don't want one with too small an opening, that might be fine for around town but on the highway or when you are having fun with the car it may be too small.

    I still vote for you to keep the 160* t-stat. You really don't want to run any cooler than ~165, and a restrictor that might work for fun driving could allow too cool for more legal driving.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator
    pajeff02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, PA
    Posts
    21,576

    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    Try the middle size and see how your temps run. Or, take a look at a stock 'stat and match up the hole size as best you can. The restrictor slows down the flow and allows the coolant to do its job efficiently -- absorbing the engine heat and dispersing it through the radiator's airflow.

  15. #15
    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    3,351

    Mean Black
    1998 Trans Am

    interesting topic.

  16. #16
    Member SuperSSguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    979

    Sunset Orange Metallic
    2002 Camaro SS M6

    Quote Originally Posted by 2002ssslp View Post
    A thermostat helps build coolant heat to a preset temp and maintains that temp. without a thermostat coolant is circulating all the time and it takes longer to build heat in the engine. The PCM montiors coolant temp and it sets the AF ratio for emmissions and the spark advance for economy. If you run without a thermostat you need to tell the PCM. Call Frost.
    So in your opinion do you think a 160 degree will increase emissions over a factory t-stat?

  17. #17
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,170

    Black
    2000 WS6 6spd Hooker LT

    If your running too cool, yes you will increase emissions. Below about 165* most PCMs will run on tables that ignore the O2 sensors, therefore not fine tuning the fuel table. So wasting fuel equals less MPG. One of the first things I look for when someone comes in saying their car is getting worse then usual MPG is to see if the t-stat is working correctly.

    So if you are constantly running too cool, then yes you are burning more gas, possibly having the rich mixture more quickly contaminate the oil since more fuel is blowing by the rings, causing more engine wear over the long run, causing your converters to work harder, etc.

  18. #18
    Super Moderator
    pajeff02's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mansfield, PA
    Posts
    21,576

    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    Open Loop / Closed Loop is somewhere around 120 to 140 degrees on our cars, if I recall correctly. Even with a 160 degree thermostat, the engine will generally run warmer than that by several degrees. With a 180 degree thermostat in our car, and reprogrammed fans, the temps stay between 186 and 192 on average.

  19. #19
    Sold: LS1 '85 El Camino ls1camino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Laurel, Maryland
    Posts
    4,977

    2000 Grand Prix GTP
    2000 Trans Am WS6 M6

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    If your running too cool, yes you will increase emissions. Below about 165* most PCMs will run on tables that ignore the O2 sensors, therefore not fine tuning the fuel table. So wasting fuel equals less MPG. One of the first things I look for when someone comes in saying their car is getting worse then usual MPG is to see if the t-stat is working correctly.

    So if you are constantly running too cool, then yes you are burning more gas, possibly having the rich mixture more quickly contaminate the oil since more fuel is blowing by the rings, causing more engine wear over the long run, causing your converters to work harder, etc.
    What is a converter?

  20. #20
    Nightmare RedFenix_68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Cherry Point NC
    Posts
    475

    Red
    2000 Trans Am WS.6 M6

    acoonamatta?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Question: 160 thermostat
    By 2002ssslp in forum External Engine
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-13-2011, 07:26 AM
  2. Question: 160 thermostat
    By 2000dreambird in forum General Help
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 04-01-2010, 09:16 AM
  3. 160 or 180 Thermostat?
    By Speed_kills_WS6 in forum General Help
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-04-2008, 10:04 AM
  4. Thermostat
    By hartsmike in forum LT1
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 02-29-2008, 06:56 AM
  5. 160 thermostat
    By Todd MacKenzie in forum General Help
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-31-2006, 10:37 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •