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Is there water in my motor? Struggles above 4000 rpm.

This is a discussion on Is there water in my motor? Struggles above 4000 rpm. within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; can you post the codes?...

  1. #41
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    can you post the codes?

  2. #42
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Yeah, I will get it scanned after work.

  3. #43
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naaman View Post
    Great. Is this the type of problem that, even if the water dries up or is removed, will persist? In theory, if the moisture goes away, does the problem also? Or is the damage done whether the moisture remains or not.

    I had the idea of maybe running a blow dryer in the vicinity of the coils and wires... wishful thinking?
    Usually it goes back to normal. Unless it burnt something up.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Cool. I will definitely try drying them off somehow before I spend $600-800 bucks.

    It will be nice to have my care back to normal.

  5. #45
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Get some electric contact cleaner. Spray it up in the connectors in the coil/wires.

  6. #46
    The Demon Demon_Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Firstly that mechanic you spoke with is really a floor sweeper/parts changer/oil change technician and is clueless how a internal engine works. In other words a total idiot.

    Not all Lube tech's are idiots. I just so happen to be an express service technician for Nissan. Yet I can work on pretty much anything. But I agree that a lot of people who are inexperienced can misinform people of issue with their cars.

    Sounds to be a misfire issue/ electrical issue. Can be caused from Spark Plugs, Spark plug wires, bad fuel, lack of fuel pressure, clogged injectors, clogged fuel filter (Lean Misfire), coil pack etc. It is most likely the spark plugs. Factory wires are just as good as MSD wires. But MSD's are probably a cheaper aftermarket application then factory wires.

    Good luck.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    can you post the codes?
    P0131

    P0151

    Looks like low voltage on two cylinders. That's a relief. But I'm still not sure whether it's a coil or wire...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Get some electric contact cleaner. Spray it up in the connectors in the coil/wires.
    Will I need to expose the connections (take anyting off/apart) before spraying?
    Last edited by Naaman; 01-26-2011 at 06:51 PM.

  8. #48
    The Demon Demon_Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naaman View Post
    P0131

    P0151

    Looks like low voltage on two cylinders. That's a relief. But I'm still not sure whether it's a coil or wire...



    Will I need to expose the connections (take anyting off/apart) before spraying?

    Easy test, swap those two coils with another two and mark them. See if it misfires on those cylinders with same plugs in place or misfires with the two coil packs you moved. Inspect the plug wires for damage and any breakage or corrosion. You can eliminate either the plugs or coils by doing an easy swap around and see if the misfire stays or changes.

    Yes you need to take off the coil packs and plug wires that are at the cylinders that are misfiring. you can try and clean the contacts like above and use an electrical cleaner but if that doesn't solve the issue you may need new coils or plug wires.
    Last edited by Demon_Z28; 01-26-2011 at 07:15 PM.

  9. #49
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Firstly that mechanic you spoke with is really a floor sweeper/parts changer/oil change technician and is clueless how a internal engine works. In other words a total idiot.
    Back in the day we used to suck water via a vacuum line into our intake to burn off carbon on our pistons. Worked great. Nothing stays in the combustion chamber. It either goes out the exhaust or passed the rings into the sump. If you got a boatload of water into your combustion chamber....and it would take an effort like driving your car into a lake....then yes you can damage your motor....bend a rod etc.
    Secondly if I took a high pressure power washer and held it over my fuel injected motor for a day at full blast I could not get any water into my combustion chamber. If I got some in my throttle body it would not do anything like what you described.

    What you described is either electrical as the guys have described. Software reaction to a sensor that has gone south....or mechanical like a throttle body blade that is hanging up on something.
    I laughed for about 5 minutes straight after reading this...still laughing as I type this.

    I use to spray water into the throttle body also

  10. #50
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    UPDATE:

    I have not taken any corrective measures at this point, as I did not have time last night.

    As I was getting onto the freeway this morning, I decided to try a long pull through second gear. I watched the tachometer climb past 4000 without a problem. I continued to accelerate up to 4500 and then grabbed 3rd. (I did not want to go too much faster due to the heavy fog and wet ground, otherwise I would have tried to get it all the way to 5500). Though, I was pleased that the motor made it past this threshold.

    Today on my lunch break I am going to get that electrical cleaner stuff and examine the motor to see if I can figure out how to do what I need to do.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Get some electric contact cleaner. Spray it up in the connectors in the coil/wires.
    Okay... well, I bought some electric contact cleaner. I was able to locate the coils and the wires. I pulled the wire off the number 2 spark plug (I couldn't get it to come off the coil using just my fingers). I also removed the number 1 wire from the coil (couldn't get this one off the plug). I sprayed the contact points that I was able to expose, let them dry and plugged everything back in.

    I took her out for a spin and on the first attempt (about 85% throttle in 2nd gear, from a 20 mph roll) the engine bogged at 4000 rpm, and actually dropped all the way down to 3000 even though I did not lift off the pdeal. The next try was a 1st gear roll at about 75% throttle. Pulled all the way to 5500 smoothly, but felt somewhat weak (like I was missing about 30 horsepower at the top end). I grabbed 2nd gear and it behaved just like 1st this time... a smooth pull but not as much power as there should be. Tomorrow I'm going to try and clean the other contacts that I couldn't get at tonight, but using some tools this time.

    As far as changing out the wires myself... that's going to be interesting... I had a pretty hard time plugging the number 2 back wire in... that whole second bank seems hard to access. There is a part (not sure what it's called, but it feeds into [or leads out of?]) the header... If I take that off, it will be much easier to get at 2, 4, and 6... number 8 is deffinitely going to be a challenge. I might have to bite the bullet and take it to the dealer and have them do it for me if I can't figure it out.

  12. #52
    Member 20ws6speed01's Avatar
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    So,this all started went u cleaned ur engine bay??? Did u spray the PCM?? If it was we I would start cleaning connectors....

  13. #53
    Stop messing with the ignition, that's not your problem. First, inspect and clean the MAF sensor. Clear the DTCs by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. Then continue.

    If symptoms still remain with no DTCs returning, you probably have one of two issues:

    1. Water in the knock sensor wells, or

    2. Clogged catalytic converter(s).

    Inspecting the knock sensor wells requires removal of the intake. You can check for a clogged converter by removing both AIR tubes at the exhaust manifolds and going for a drive to see if the high RPM power restores.

  14. #54
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc 85Z28 View Post
    Stop messing with the ignition, that's not your problem. First, inspect and clean the MAF sensor. Clear the DTCs by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. Then continue.

    If symptoms still remain with no DTCs returning, you probably have one of two issues:

    1. Water in the knock sensor wells, or

    2. Clogged catalytic converter(s).

    Inspecting the knock sensor wells requires removal of the intake. You can check for a clogged converter by removing both AIR tubes at the exhaust manifolds and going for a drive to see if the high RPM power restores.
    But what about the low voltage codes? It specified that cylinders 1 and 2 had low voltage. Those were the only codes that came up.

  15. #55
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Based on the above post, I decided to go scan the PCM again.

    I picked up a few things that I didn't catch before, and I copied down the freeze frame data. The FF data was only available for P0131.

    O2 Circuit Low
    Calculated Load: 25.4%
    Coolant Temp: 197 F
    STFT Bank 1: -0.7%
    Lift Bank 1: 9.3%
    STFT Bank 2: -0.7%
    Lift Bank 2: 7.0%
    Intake Manifold Pressure: 26.2 in.h9
    Engine RPM 3277
    Speed: 54 mph
    MAF 9.54 lb/min
    Throttle Position: 50.1%

    So it's looking like it might be an O2 sensor problem.

    Now, if the moisture is gone, but the DTC is sitll there, will the problem remain? Will the PCM still think that there is not enough oxygen, and therefor lean out the mixture, simply because the code logged?

  16. #56
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    That MAF reading looks really low for 50% throttle, 3200 rpm. Seems like it should be in the 20 lbs/min area

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Naaman View Post
    But what about the low voltage codes? It specified that cylinders 1 and 2 had low voltage. Those were the only codes that came up.
    Those codes are for low voltage received from the O2 sensors, bank 1 and 2. They are very commonly found on cars with a contaminated MAF sensor. That's why I said clean the MAF for your DTCs first. You wanted help, you got it. The best help you've gotten so far and you question it?!

  18. #58
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    Marc 85Z28, as it happens, according to your advice, I popped open my air lid and noticed that the little foam strip that goes along the edge to seal off the induction was missing. When I reached into the MAF to check for obstructions, voila, there it was, all crumpled up against the screen (glad I didn't descreen it).

    I took the Z out for a test drive and the first pull was a second gear pull all the way to 5500, smooth as silk. Then I tried a 1st gear pull and again, strong and smooth. A thrid pull in 2nd gear was consistantly strong and smooth.

    I thank everyone for their input and advice and for helping a newbee out with things far beyond his understanding.

  19. #59
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Glad it was something simple

  20. #60
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    NICE!!! Glad to hear its fixed

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