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Starts fine, but won't stay running (help)

This is a discussion on Starts fine, but won't stay running (help) within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; hmmmmm try checkin your crack shaft postion sensor..... that is a very important sensor. Process goes like...... CSP sensor to ...

  1. #41
    Veteran Hi-Po's Avatar
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    hmmmmm try checkin your crack shaft postion sensor..... that is a very important sensor. Process goes like...... CSP sensor to ignition module that sends referance to ECM to spark,injectors,IACV,EGR,CANISTER PURGE

  2. #42
    used and abused at wot ibanez7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheier
    Correct on the idle control. Turns out when I unplug the MAF, idles better, but won't drive down the road. Same exact reaction when pulling the TPS. As soon as any of those are back on, car won't idle. Makes me think that it has something to do with the mixture, but sucks, b/c I can't drive it to a dealer for a scan. I'm too worried about fouling plugs or washing out the guts for running too rich.

    Still waiting on brother's OEM MAF.

    Usually when the MAF is disconnected the idle will be for crap.
    Also when a MAF is dirty (kn oil, etc) the car will run like its missing on spark timing.
    Donít worry about the car running to rich, its running lean that will burn up your engine. Running rich will just bog it out and waste fuel. When sensors and O2s go out, the computer runs a default loop that runs rich to protect from burning up the engine.

    What MAF is on your car now? When I tried the Granatelli, my z28 threw engine codes and ran like crap, so took it back and got a slp which works great!

    The posted above fuel filter question is a good idea too!

    Try these two things if you havenít yet!!!

    Disconnect your battery for awhile, to reset the computer? Maybe your pcm is stuck in a bad loop. (doubtful but you never know)
    Remove your Throttle body (its easy 3, 10mm bolts), then remove the IAC and clean the passage in the TB for the IAC and clean the IAC.
    Your IAC is just a solenoid that opens and closes to control idle. They get filthy and gummed up over time!

    Without a code reader, its really a crap shoot on whats going on. Best of luck with it! And post what the problem is, once you know!

  3. #43
    scheier
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    All your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you so much.

    I swapped the Granatelli MAF with the stock MAF and got nothing. I've pulled every sensor that seemed credible to see if unplugged, would at least let me back out of the driveway. These included the MAF, Idle control sensor, TPS, Coolant sensor, airlid sensor.

    I also disconnected the battery and tried again, but results were the same.

    She was definitely running rich, and I thought too much fool could wash out your cylinders. I'm lost at what to do now. I was told it may be a good idea to change out my oil when its fixed b/c you can sometimes get fuel in your oil when running rich for too long.

    I did the inevitable in this case. She was towed to a reputable mechanic and will be hooked up to a machine and diagnosed.

    I will defintely post the results to help anyone in the future with this issue.

    Stay tuned...

  4. #44
    Single Malt rbob93's Avatar
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    Damn!


  5. #45
    scheier
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    Results...

    Paid towing and diagnostic fees of $135.

    The guy said that the MAF was throwing erratic signals. He said they cleaned it and stuck it back in and it runs ok. He said that oil from the air filter was probably on the sensors from the K&N. It was suggested below and I saw with my own eyes, my sensors were dirty. I know my filter is dirty. He said to replace the plugs and she should be back to top shape. Plugs were fouled from running it rich too long. He also suggested replacing K&N with factory air filter and I have an oversize air intake box with a whisper lid and he thought those should go back to stock. (This is not a dealership, just a recommended mechanic from some coworkers)

    The problem that I have is that last night I put the factory MAF on the car that has less than 10k miles and it ran IDENTICAL. Maybe I should have reset the computer before trying that one? I unplugged the battery after I put my aftermarket back on the car.

    He wants $14 per spark plug and $187 in labor to replace them. Can't afford that with out giving it a good try myself! Anyone know which plugs are good besides OEM for our cars and the price. Anyone ever able to change the last two plugs on the passenger side? I've replaced the other six before.

  6. #46
    used and abused at wot ibanez7's Avatar
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    Congrats on the fix.

    One of my first post and another person post was CLEAN THE MAF RESISTORS. Its hard to believe just a sensor can jack up a ride so bad.
    Only soak them never scrub or touch them. Also always unplug that bat to reset the PCM.

    Just FYI, GM will not warranty a car that uses an oil based filter for that exact reason, there has been many cases where a dirty MAF has destroyed automatic trannys.

    I run an oil base filter and that happened to me once. I make sure to lightly oil the filter and make sure it dries before installing.

    Most people including myself run NGK TR-55, great plugs.

    Also you can change the plugs yourself if you have some tools and can turn wrenches decently. I change all my plugs from above the car, many people grab a few from underneath, but it can be done from the top.

    The drivers side is easy to get too, the passenger side back ones are tough, just un-fasten the AIR provision on the header and your will be fine!

    If you need new wires, I suggest taylor 10.4 great wires too!!

    Once you install headers and remove the AIR pump, plugs changes are a breeze!!!

    As far as using an oil based and an aftermarket lid, don’t worry about it, all of us for the most do and the cars are fine!!

    Glad to hear its runny well and good luck!!

  7. #47
    scheier
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    I remember the post about cleaning the MAF and it was right on. My issue was that I put a completely different MAF and housings in there and it didn't change how it ran. I think I should have reset the computer with the new one, then tried it.

    She runs, but really crappy.

    When you soak your MAF, what did you soak it in? I remember you or someone already suggested something.

    I've replace the wires before except back passenger side one. What is the AIR provision? Does it just unplug or are there are few bolts? I know, its the thing that is in the way. Ha ha. I just don't want to crack open the condensor on the AC unit or something stupid like that by not knowing what I'm playing with. Is it the aluminum cylinder that has lines going to it?

    What do you mean by "Once you install headers and remove the AIR pump, plugs changes are a breeze!!!"? What does "install headers" mean?

    The AIR pump is the same as the AIR provision that you are talking about? Your post is giving me a little relief on changing plugs. The only thing I've read about plug changes before was that it took one guy 6 hours. YIKES!!!

  8. #48
    used and abused at wot ibanez7's Avatar
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    soaking MAF:
    I just soak mine in DAWN dish soap "it cuts grease" and warm water. Let it dry and reinstall.

    Battery disconnect:

    Any time your car runs goofy, acts up, or throws an SES code. Always disconnect the battery to reset the computer. Remember it can take a few miles of driving before the computer relearns completely.

    Still running crappy:
    You should definitely change your plugs. It might be time for a tune up too. How many miles are on your car? Also is it still throwing an SES code?

    AIR Provision and air pump:

    The air pump supplies fresh air to your cadalytic converters through the AIR Provisions.
    The AIR Provisions are fastened to your exhaust headers(manifolds) by two 10mm bolts(i think that is the size). One air tube is connected on the left header and one is connected on the right header. Disconnecting the one on the passenger side header allows you to slide your arm between the engine and wheel well to remove the back spark plug. Removal of the AIR provision only takes 30secs and save huge time on spark plug changes.

    What I meant by headers!
    I meant that if you plan on installing Long Tube Headers on your car with and ORY-pipe for more HorsePower, you can remove the AIR Provision and AIR pump completely. allowing more room under the hood!

    here check these out, when you have reading time if your interested!!!
    you might already know about them, if you do cool, if not there is some good info!!

    nice little site with some info
    http://www.installuniversity.com/ins...sity/index.htm

    very knowledge based site, will show you everything about LS1 cars like yours:

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213148
    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139142

  9. #49
    scheier
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    Here's the latest...

    Changed all 8 plugs and wires. Knuckles are looking rough, but in the end, I didn't mind the job so much. I checked out Install University before I read your post, but it was helpful.

    Right after plugs, disconnected battery, then started. I let it idle a while until all was smooth. First mile or so the problem still seemed to be there. She idled fine, but until she warmed up, still tough to take off in first b/c of bogging down. After 5 minutes or so, she ran STRONG. Slam the peddle in first gear at 10 miles/hour and it would spin the tires.

    SES light came on last night when I got home. Planned on taking it in today to check code. This morning, same problem.

    Swapped MAF out with the factory one. Reset battery. Same problem.

    Idles great. Put in gear and give it gas, it dies. Once warmed up, it will drive, but noticably less power. Noticed in first and second car would lose power for a second and then pick back up as I was accelerating.

    Changing out PCV valve and the battery post. (Car wouldn't turn over and had to walk 1/2 mile to house to get wrench eventhough it was already pretty tight.) Noticed dried oil inside the throttle body on the flapper. Will clean throttle body up.

    Any other ideas, let me know. Since I unplugged the battery, I think I lost my code. Just have to drive it until I get another. Seems like it takes 50 miles to get one.

  10. #50
    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    I'd look into that pcv. where in texas are you anyways?

  11. #51
    scheier
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    Changed the PCV. No help.

    I'm in League City. 20 minutes south of downtown Houston.

  12. #52
    scheier
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    Changed the last plug out Sunday, cleaned the K&N filter really good.
    Ran strong at times, but still hard to fire up and rough to drive when not warmed up. Drove it on the highway about 30 minutes and ran decent. No noticable issues when on the highway.

    Monday, it took 10 minutes to get out of my driveway, so I took a vacation day to work on it. Put brother's MAF in and reset the computer (foolishly losing the SES code I had just gotten the night before when getting home.) Still ran like crap, so I changed out PCV valve (oil on the wrong side) and cleaned the dried oily grime off the throttle body flapper. Also cleaned and changed my positive battery post b/c even tightened, it left me walking home to get tools and it was starting to strip. Then drove it around sputtering off and on for the last half of my gas tank.

    Filled it up last night. Seemed to drive better, but I didn't want to give myself a false sense of hope.

    This morning, I figured I'd have lots of trouble b/c the car would be started after the whole night and not warmed up. For the first time since all this started, it cranked up immediately. I put it in reverse and no sputtering. I put it in first and pulled up, ran great. Driving to work I leaned on the accelerator a little bit and she pulled strong and steady. No jerky power loss like the day before. I left work and went to school, then left school to come back to work. All great!

    Maybe a combo of things? Bad gas, dirty MAF, fouled plugs from running rich.

    Thanks again for all of your help!

  13. #53
    Senior Member 02z28ls1's Avatar
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    Bad opti? Is that short for optispark-he doesn't have one of those....... .I'd check fuel pressure when it's running bad-just a possibility-because of the change in driveability difference between half tank and full (if it continues running funky).Fuel pumps can come and go. Obviously if it's still setting codes you need to know what code is it setting.

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