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Starter or Ignition? Maybe something else...?

This is a discussion on Starter or Ignition? Maybe something else...? within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Smittro Check the heavy HOT (+) lead to the starter is not melted through or grounding anywhere. ...

  1. #21
    Member bhunter0830's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Check the heavy HOT (+) lead to the starter is not melted through or grounding anywhere.

    Check it's connection @ the starter too.

    Check the HOT (+) post connection and lead on the back of the Alt for shorting and/or damage also.

    Have the Alt and battery load tested.
    Well it's not the starter. Tested it on the work bench and it spins. I have enough thread to get a new longer bolt through the block and place a nut on top to keep it tight. So it has to be something on top... other thoughts? Ground are all good, clean and connected. Alternator also tested and good along with the battery. I am moving on to the ignition switch or pcm...

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    Member bhunter0830's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiveass View Post
    the origional ground is on the back of the head on the driver side...but just run a ground from the frame of the pcm to a chassis ground..
    Do i need to pull the PCM out to find the ground?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhunter0830 View Post
    I replaced the right daytime running lamp and the left rear side marker sockets.
    Quote Originally Posted by bhunter0830 View Post
    Took my car to the car wash this evening. As soon as it hit the rack the left turn signal stayed on and all the gauges dropped to dead... Turned the lights off and the turn signal turned off however all gauges including the air/fuel ratio gauge died. Once it rolled off the rack, I pulled off to the side and shut it down. When I turn the key, I have power to radio, windows, locks etc.. However, turn the key no tick, no "click, click, click" of the dead battery, nothing. None the less, i had to have it towed home. I suspect the starter is dead as everything else is ran off of the aux and the car does not need to be started to run them. If it is the starter, is there anything out of the ordinary that I should now about other than the two bolts and disconnecting the cables?
    Quote Originally Posted by bhunter0830 View Post
    Well it's not the starter. Tested it on the work bench and it spins. I have enough thread to get a new longer bolt through the block and place a nut on top to keep it tight. So it has to be something on top... other thoughts? Ground are all good, clean and connected. Alternator also tested and good along with the battery. I am moving on to the ignition switch or pcm...
    You can try that. I would also try checking your work again just be sure nothing came apart.

    The other thing crossing my mind is that the BCM may have gotten toasted,,, do your wipers/windows still work?

    Aswell as a possible wiring issue elsewhere,,, possibly one of the under hood fuse panels wiring.

    One thing I would not do, is plug a perfectly good PCM into the harness before exausting a harness inspection.

    GM is not known for its fantastic wire harnesses. lol
    Last edited by Smittro; 05-04-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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  4. #24
    Member bhunter0830's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    You can try that. I would also try checking your work again just be sure nothing came apart.

    The other thing crossing my mind is that the BCM may have gotten toasted,,, do your wipers/windows still work?

    Aswell as a possible wiring issue elsewhere,,, possibly one of the under hood fuse panels wiring.

    One thing I would not do, is plug a perfectly good PCM into the harness before exausting a harness inspection.

    GM is not known for its fantastic wire harnesses. lol
    In theory, couldn't i start the car from a separate battery much like I tested it? If that starts the car and the gauges still don't work, do you think it's fair to say it's the PCM? If the gauges do work and all seems good, we can assume it would be the ignition switch and I can start the procedure to remove the steering wheel. Unless you know of a way to do so with out removing it?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhunter0830 View Post
    In theory, couldn't i start the car from a separate battery much like I tested it? If that starts the car and the gauges still don't work, do you think it's fair to say it's the PCM? If the gauges do work and all seems good, we can assume it would be the ignition switch and I can start the procedure to remove the steering wheel. Unless you know of a way to do so with out removing it?
    Yes, you can as long as the test battery is good.

    I know of no other way to repair the steering column wiring.

    Could be the PCM, could be a harness issue, could be a conection with your repair and hitting the rack.

    Could be the BCM, as you mentioned a turn signal came steady on.

  6. #26
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    One thing I can throw into this is the remote turn on wire for the alt. It is a small wire that often gets broken when r and r ing the alt. It is a very fragile wire. If it is broken, you can rebuild the harness plug that holds it pretty easily. Get a very small flat bladed screwdriver and use it to release the wire in the plug. Then, reinstall snapping it in. Prob a long shot, just trying to be helpful.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    I have a pick of what the PS pump can do to the alternator all because a $0.60 O ring.
    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    was the left turn signal one of the sockets you replaced? Could be the source of your short.
    Quote Originally Posted by az gt eater View Post
    One thing I can throw into this is the remote turn on wire for the alt. It is a small wire that often gets broken when r and r ing the alt. It is a very fragile wire. If it is broken, you can rebuild the harness plug that holds it pretty easily. Get a very small flat bladed screwdriver and use it to release the wire in the plug. Then, reinstall snapping it in. Prob a long shot, just trying to be helpful.
    I appreciate the idea. I tested all terminals and wires for correct voltage and everything looks good. It just baffles me as to why the gauges would die and my air/fuel gauge. Everything else turns on and works... Other than gauges and starter that is! Thanks again!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    I have a pick of what the PS pump can do to the alternator all because a $0.60 O ring.
    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    was the left turn signal one of the sockets you replaced? Could be the source of your short.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Yes, you can as long as the test battery is good.

    I know of no other way to repair the steering column wiring.

    Could be the PCM, could be a harness issue, could be a conection with your repair and hitting the rack.

    Could be the BCM, as you mentioned a turn signal came steady on.
    BCM, ok not sure I am familiar with that... I am already in over my head, however I am eager to try... Can you point me in the right direction? The turn signal stays on, on the dash when the lights go on. I have locks, windows, wipers etc.

  9. #29
    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    body control module.....under passenger front seat.....do any of your turn signals work? did you try to ground the pcm?

  10. #30
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    I have not grounded the PCM. I don't know how to do that. None of the turn signals work.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiveass View Post
    body control module.....under passenger front seat.....do any of your turn signals work? did you try to ground the pcm?
    The BCM is not located under the passenger seat.

    The BCM or (integrated body control module) is however located up under the passenger side dash, between the rear of the glove box and HVAC blower motor..

    You'll have to remove the passenger under dash panel to service the BCM.

  12. #32
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    Oh and don't fool with the little black box under the passenger seat..

    Would'nt want to set your air bag off..

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhunter0830 View Post
    BCM, ok not sure I am familiar with that... I am already in over my head, however I am eager to try... Can you point me in the right direction? The turn signal stays on, on the dash when the lights go on. I have locks, windows, wipers etc.
    If your locks, windows, and wipers all work, time to start looking @ the column harness, and the headlight control switch, DRL switch as well.

    Are you absolutely sure you properly secured the new sockets harnesses wire slices you made???

    Meaning how did you make the connection,, solder, wire nuts, twisted together and taped?

  14. #34
    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    oh shit....my bad.......coulda swore bcm was under the seat...but now that i think aboiut it, i did have to fool with some wiring under the dash when i did my swap.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    I have a pick of what the PS pump can do to the alternator all because a $0.60 O ring.
    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    was the left turn signal one of the sockets you replaced? Could be the source of your short.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Yes, you can as long as the test battery is good.

    I know of no other way to repair the steering column wiring.

    Could be the PCM, could be a harness issue, could be a conection with your repair and hitting the rack.

    Could be the BCM, as you mentioned a turn signal came steady on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    If your locks, windows, and wipers all work, time to start looking @ the column harness, and the headlight control switch, DRL switch as well.

    Are you absolutely sure you properly secured the new sockets harnesses wire slices you made???

    Meaning how did you make the connection,, solder, wire nuts, twisted together and taped?
    I cut clean pieces of the wires and soldered new sockets for the DRL and rear side marker. If I remove the DRL bulb and the car starts, I'm gonna be pissed!

  16. #36
    Member bhunter0830's Avatar
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    Ok, here's the break down...

    Car had been driven all day in rain. Had time to dry out before rewashing. On the way out the gas peddle went hard. Had to shut down and restart. Gas peddle worked fine agaib. The car had not gotten wet before the gauges died. continued through the wash and shut it down. No gauges, odometer & no turn over.

    1. Battery tested good.
    2. Starter tested good.
    3. Alternator tested good.
    4. Traced wires to all with good voltage.
    5. No voltage to "exciter wire" on starter when key turned.
    6. PCM pulled but not sure why... Now put back in.

  17. #37
    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiveass View Post
    thats exactly what my car was doin after i did the engine swap...turns out the pcm wasnt grounded.....run a ground wire to the frame of the pcm and try it
    im not saying thats the problem, but its too easy not to try it.

  18. #38
    Member bhunter0830's Avatar
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    I appologize for my ignorance, how would I do the ground from the PCM... From the harnes or PCM itself?

  19. #39
    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    no.....just take an old piece of speaker wire or whatever loose wire you got layin around and connect it to the negative side of the battery....then take the other end and hold it to the metal casing of the pcm and have someone try to start it..if no one is available to help you then take the end of the wire and connect it to one of the screws that are on the corners of the pcm and start the car yourself...thats what i did.

  20. #40
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    Joveass: That's kinda what I was thinking, however I have been wrong all along, so thank you! I'll give that a shot tonight. Do you think the gauges are controlled by the ignition? That's my next try after the grounded PCM.

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