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SES CODE running rich bank 2...

This is a discussion on SES CODE running rich bank 2... within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; darn it....ses back on after clearing it and adjusting tb...now it only reads 175....any ideas on what to check/change/adjust/clean...anything......

  1. #21
    Member GNICTRY's Avatar
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    darn it....ses back on after clearing it and adjusting tb...now it only reads 175....any ideas on what to check/change/adjust/clean...anything...

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    anyone

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Hey guys if anyone has suggestions, she and I are all ears.

    Tiffany brought the car to me two weeks ago on Monday, it had no stored codes at that point, and after 12-15 mins of driving with fuel trims in the -2 to -4 range all over I decided that it *MUST* be intermittent as there was no issue at all with the car at that point.

    Now, there are only a coupe scenario's for a too rich code that I know of. This code is set when the fuel trimming system can no longer take away enough fuel to maintain stoich. That is over 50%!! First things would normally be a hanging injector, but since she has had codes on BOTH banks, it's unlikely that an injector from each side would stick. Another possibility is a clogged regulator, or something similar that would cause a LARGE rise in fuel pressure. That's all I have thoug.

    Any ideas anyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Hey guys if anyone has suggestions, she and I are all ears.

    Tiffany brought the car to me two weeks ago on Monday, it had no stored codes at that point, and after 12-15 mins of driving with fuel trims in the -2 to -4 range all over I decided that it *MUST* be intermittent as there was no issue at all with the car at that point.

    Now, there are only a coupe scenario's for a too rich code that I know of. This code is set when the fuel trimming system can no longer take away enough fuel to maintain stoich. That is over 50%!! First things would normally be a hanging injector, but since she has had codes on BOTH banks, it's unlikely that an injector from each side would stick. Another possibility is a clogged regulator, or something similar that would cause a LARGE rise in fuel pressure. That's all I have thoug.

    Any ideas anyone?

    Since it seems to be a common problem... try testing the fuel pressure regulator.... it could have a ruptured diaphram... unplugged vacuum line... etc, what about the spark plug condition? does it feel like it has a misfire? you could check and see if any wires are burned, plugs fouled.... etc... it could be a bad MAF not just dirty that's not sensing all of the air in the system...

    OR

    what type of o2 sensor did you put in? the OEM works best from experience, it might be biased rich or seeing a false rich condition... Frost if you have a shop do you have a 4- or 5-gas analyzer to see if it actually IS a rich condition??

    what % is Short Term Fuel Trim(STFT) and Long Term Fuel Trim(LTFT) at?

  5. #25
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMagic08 View Post
    Since it seems to be a common problem... try testing the fuel pressure regulator.... it could have a ruptured diaphram... unplugged vacuum line... etc, what about the spark plug condition? does it feel like it has a misfire? you could check and see if any wires are burned, plugs fouled.... etc... it could be a bad MAF not just dirty that's not sensing all of the air in the system...

    OR

    what type of o2 sensor did you put in? the OEM works best from experience, it might be biased rich or seeing a false rich condition... Frost if you have a shop do you have a 4- or 5-gas analyzer to see if it actually IS a rich condition??

    what % is Short Term Fuel Trim(STFT) and Long Term Fuel Trim(LTFT) at?


    It's very intermittent. She brought the car by and when out cruising, trims were nice and tight; -4 to -2 through most of the range, never positive, and never further out than -6.

    The MAF is fine; logging freq shows all is well, but so does the tight trimming.

    The regulator doesn't have a diaphragm, it's like a plastic disc with a spring over a hole. Even if it did, you should expect a drop as it moves thru to the exit/return.

    It was not misfiring or missing at all.

    For a week or more at a time, all is fine, then one day she gets codes, but says it feels no different.

    Her O2s are very new and switch very well, right at 14.7 on my wideband.

    Hey Tiffany, here's a question, do you just get the code on very cold days? I wonder if the O2s have a hard time getting up to temp in those stainless steel headers... If so, your car is tuned so close that closed loop operation could be delayed a bit. That table is engine temp vs. IAT.

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    Member GNICTRY's Avatar
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    I would say ya on cold days but we havent had a warm one so not sure if its the cold. I cant really tell u if its running the same because its always had a problem....it feels a little puttery at around 40mph...but i think thats the trans...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    It's very intermittent. She brought the car by and when out cruising, trims were nice and tight; -4 to -2 through most of the range, never positive, and never further out than -6.

    The MAF is fine; logging freq shows all is well, but so does the tight trimming.

    The regulator doesn't have a diaphragm, it's like a plastic disc with a spring over a hole. Even if it did, you should expect a drop as it moves thru to the exit/return.

    It was not misfiring or missing at all.

    For a week or more at a time, all is fine, then one day she gets codes, but says it feels no different.

    Her O2s are very new and switch very well, right at 14.7 on my wideband.

    Hey Tiffany, here's a question, do you just get the code on very cold days? I wonder if the O2s have a hard time getting up to temp in those stainless steel headers... If so, your car is tuned so close that closed loop operation could be delayed a bit. That table is engine temp vs. IAT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMagic08 View Post
    Since it seems to be a common problem... try testing the fuel pressure regulator.... it could have a ruptured diaphram... unplugged vacuum line... etc, what about the spark plug condition? does it feel like it has a misfire? you could check and see if any wires are burned, plugs fouled.... etc... it could be a bad MAF not just dirty that's not sensing all of the air in the system...

    OR

    what type of o2 sensor did you put in? the OEM works best from experience, it might be biased rich or seeing a false rich condition... Frost if you have a shop do you have a 4- or 5-gas analyzer to see if it actually IS a rich condition??

    what % is Short Term Fuel Trim(STFT) and Long Term Fuel Trim(LTFT) at?
    We put boshe corvette rear 02s and term...ask frost We replace the plugs couple months before headers which were in sept and we had to take them out when doing them...they are ac delco and msd wires...on the half that are close to the pipes we put boots on...so dunno

  8. #28
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    ses came on on the 16th as below...i left it on didnt clear it well today the 21st i went to clean it and instead on just one side its is BOTH again darn it...codes 172 and 175... seems fine thou...I cleared it and ill post when it comes back on again...

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    did you guys log it through a bunch of different conditions hitting as many trim cells as possible? It makes sense that it's taking a specific condition. An example would be my buddies vette, it was fine everywhere except very light cruising throttle such as through a neighborhood at 20-25 mph just keeping the car at speed. He was throwing rich codes. I leaned him out in that specific area and he was good to go. That was back in the LS1edit days. I would do a log hitting as many load ranges as possible and see what it looks like. What does the idle look like afr wise cold and hot?

  11. #31
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    did you guys log it through a bunch of different conditions hitting as many trim cells as possible? It makes sense that it's taking a specific condition. An example would be my buddies vette, it was fine everywhere except very light cruising throttle such as through a neighborhood at 20-25 mph just keeping the car at speed. He was throwing rich codes. I leaned him out in that specific area and he was good to go. That was back in the LS1edit days. I would do a log hitting as many load ranges as possible and see what it looks like. What does the idle look like afr wise cold and hot?
    Yeah this is definitely an intermittent mechanical issue rather than a cell being off somewhere. When she came by here, there wasn't even still a history of the code in the PCM. We drove around and worked a range of load points on the engine and her trims are TIGHT; NEVER saw further out -5% and averaged about -2. PE is real on the car, and hits commanded. While tuning, had the car in open loop and was able to keep it idling at 14.4-14.6 with no sweat. It's just boltons.

    The only thing I know of that could cause this, honestly, would be a sharp upturn in fuel pressure, but that doesn't make much sense.

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    Hey everyone, ses light came on last night....i havent had a chance to read it yet...

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    172 and 175...both sides

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNICTRY View Post
    I changed my front o2s about a month ago. My ses light came on saying 172 and 175 which are system running too rich (one pass. and other driver). I cleared them to make sure it wasnt an old code. Came back with only pass. too rich.What is the problem?
    DID YOU PUT GM O2S BACK IN???????????

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    If not most aftermarket O2s are shit. ]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracker9118 View Post
    DID YOU PUT GM O2S BACK IN???????????
    no i used corvette rear bosch o2s in front and have the rear ones deleted

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    the reasoning for Bosch rear vette O2s is that with long tubes, lots of exhaust heat is lost and it makes factory O2s VERY VERY LAZY. This is especially true if the headers are stainless. The Vette O2s have about 15 watts more of heater so they dont act as lazy.

    I can show you comparative logs of idle and light cruise between the two of them if you think I'm wrong, and the logs are the bottom line.
    Last edited by Frost; 01-29-2008 at 07:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    the reasoning for Bosch rear vette O2s is that with long tubes, lots of exhaust heat is lost and it makes factory O2s VERY VERY LAZY. This is especially true if the headers are stainless. The Vette O2s have about 15 watts more of heater so they dont act as lazy.

    I can show you comparative logs of idle and light cruise between the two of them if you think I'm wrong, and the logs are the bottom line.
    i agree...would be cool to see thou

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNICTRY View Post
    i agree...would be cool to see thou

    I will screen shot them both this evening for ya Miss Tiff

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    I don't think O2's are at the root of this problem. It would be much more consistent if they were. Plus I've been running lazy O2's for a couple years now and get a heater code on a regular basis but have zero fueling issues. I have bosch 13111's ( vette rear) sensors in the garage waiting to go in this spring when I go back to mafcl. The bottom line is you'll have to get a log of the car when it's actually going rich to see what's going on. I would wonder if you have an injector sticking. Have you run injector cleaner through it or anything like that?

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