View Poll Results: Is Ram Air BS?

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  • Yes it really adds mucho horsepower

    63 45.00%
  • Nope, it doesn't do much.

    77 55.00%
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Is Ram Air BS?

This is a discussion on Is Ram Air BS? within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Thanks I love it. It will get busy on demand. lol Joey...

  1. #61
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    Chromalusion (7 colors)
    2000WS6 T/A

    Thanks I love it. It will get busy on demand. lol

    Joey
    2000 WS6 T/A Vortech V9 w/cooler 9psi. Hotchkis Sus, Spec stage 3 clutch, Sema car. 1/4 mile 11.61 at 121 mph.

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  2. #62
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    1999 Pontiac Trans Am WS6

    cool steve, i havent raced since last season and did alright driving wise, just needed to mod a lil more to get the 12s, im demoding now and probably gonna get another LS1. GTPs are VERY comfortable and drive nice, but a V6 is a V6....and everything that could have gone wrong on the car....did! but I hear you on removing the d/s headlight, i dropped .3 just on that and tire pressure

  3. #63
    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    Mystic Teal
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLT1Z28 View Post
    Just look at the air box that sits right behind the scoops. Its solid plastic, or whatever it's made out of. Air isn't really going ot pass though there into the engine. Air is brought up from under the car, just like all the other ones. The 'Ram Air' hood is just for looks.
    Now there are ways to make a 'WS7'. A WS7 is a small conversion where the air box is opened up and modified to take in air directly from the scoops on the hood.

    Click for full size
    This is like my setup with the raptor hood... help a little plus the filter is like twice the size..

  4. #64
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    red
    1994 Camaro Z28

    SARGE's thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Listen guys...lets simplify for effect here.
    Your motor is a great big vacuum pump. Sucking air in as the pistons go down stroke and blowing air out as they go up. Now your humming along at 2200 rpm going down the highway...your engine is sucking air at a much greater volume than any passive airflow could ever provide. In other words.....your motor is sucking in 600CFM of air from wherever you have placed your air intake/filter setup. To get a "Ram-Air" to push 600CFM of air into your motor would require you to have a velocity of somewhere around 155mph.
    So if a fella has a KN CAI setup mounted over to the drivers side down behind the headlight sucking air into the intake at 600CFM......and a WS6 Ram Air is sucking 600CFM through its nostrils...your both sucking 600CFM of air into your motor regardless of where that air is coming from.
    The real consideration is to get colder denser air into your intake versus heated engine bay air being sucked into your intake....so moving your intake away or out of the engine bay area is what you are after.
    What Sarge said!! It' s the air density improvement which yields performance gains, not any significant "ram effect" of the hood scoops.
    The only even slightly "boost" friendly areas are where Olds Ram Air scoops were ...right below the front bumpers, or at the extreme leading edge of the hood...preferrably actually protruding forward several inches. Of course, large openings in the grille area.. a la 60's Ford 427 packages on Galaxy and Thunderbolt bodies meet air "head on"...and work , as well.

  5. #65
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    black
    2000 nhra edition formula

    theres only one true ram air, and thats a blower/supercharger.
    anything else out there is a wanna be.
    2000 nhra edition formula
    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
    11.96 @113.25

  6. #66
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6sw00 View Post
    i do notice that when i am running high speeds, the engine heat drops a little bit.
    More air flow to cool the coolant in the radiator.
    Also...more RPM's is moving the coolant faster per the water pump.

  7. #67
    Impounded YoMommasTA's Avatar
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    ram air

  8. #68
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Retired Outlaw Sum Bitch

    Bored are we? Go clean out the barn and feed the goats.

  9. #69
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    00 LS1, WS6, V8 Gremlin
    96 & 98 GTPs, 64 'Cuda

    Anyone remember math and the teachers telling us we might be using it someday for something besides making change and (hopefully) balancing your checkbook?

    Let's start with the 600 cfm figure quoted above.
    Let's say I'm moving at 60 mph = 5,280 feet per minute (or 88 feet per second if you like)
    1 ft^3 of air = 1,728 in^3

    600 cfm = 10 cubic feet per second. If I can supply this amount directly to my air cleaner input I'm now equal to having a huge K&N sticking out of the top of my hood but let's move on.

    Now, I place an intake duct directly in front of the car such that it will get the 60 mph worth of air pushed directly into it. Consider this a perfect duct with the only friction being a very high-flow air filter before it continues on to the throttle body.

    For our test example ducts we'll use round tubes as follows:
    1) 6" id, area ~= 28.30 in^2 = 0.20 ft^2
    2) 8" id, area ~= 50.27 in^2 = 0.35 ft^2
    3) 10" id, area ~= 78.54 in^2 = 0.55 ft^2

    I haven't found the equations I used to know but let's use this as an example. On a (gasp) Ford Mustang 5.0 the standard 60 mm (2.36") throttle body will flow 495 CFM. An aftermarket 65 mm (2.56") will flow 664 CFM and a 105 mm (4.13") will flow 1550 CFM.

    I'll keep looking for the more definitive answers I want to post, when I find them you'll be the first to know but Ive got a lot of research on two actual projects to do this week since some final parts for the prototypes arrived. To top that off we had a burst of sales for the injector cleaning kits for some reason and I like to perform a final QC on every one made before it ships.
    Last edited by Steve Crowe; 12-25-2006 at 09:48 PM.

  10. #70
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    1998 Trans Am WS6 'Vert

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyjnjz View Post
    BUT would aerodynamics outweigh or equal that small boost in horsepower??? the ram air hood is obviously less aerodynamic than a camaro or TA hood
    One test is worth a 1000 "expert opinions"............

    Back in '99, C&D tested otherwise identical SS and WS6 'verts, both 6Ms. I'm pretty sure they even showed that the CD (drag coefficient) was lower for the SS than WS6, which makes sence. However, while the SS topped out at 158MPH, the WS6 hit it's speed limiter at 162MPH. Obviously, the WS6 was putting down more HP than the SS, enough to overcome the aerodynamic disadvantage of the WS6 hood and then some.

    Bottom line, while at legal speeds, "Ram Air" is more marketing hype than substance, at 10/10ths, "Ram Air" does indeed provide a HP boost. This apparently is all the "engineering substance" GM needs to allow their marketing guys to wield the "Ram Air" moniker and not have to worry about the lawyers.

    BTW, I'm glad someone here other than myself remembers the Olds W-machine OAI systems which were highly effective, in fact the BEST systems of their day. The only problem was that Olds didn't have Jim Wangers working in their marketing department.
    Last edited by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag; 01-05-2007 at 06:17 AM.

    Johnny B - '98 "Triple Black" WS6 Convert, M6, All Options, ASC #3030 (1 of 50)
    KBDDSFC, DGM C/F Tonneau, MTI C/F Lid, K&N, HPP-III, 160 T-stat, Pro 5.0
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  11. #71
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    1998 Trans Am WS6 'Vert

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLT1Z28 View Post
    Just look at the air box that sits right behind the scoops. Its solid plastic, or whatever it's made out of. Air isn't really going ot pass though there into the engine. Air is brought up from under the car, just like all the other ones. The 'Ram Air' hood is just for looks.
    Now there are ways to make a 'WS7'. A WS7 is a small conversion where the air box is opened up and modified to take in air directly from the scoops on the hood.

    Click for full size
    BS. WS6s have a "raised airbox" that increases the size of the forward-facing opening to the air filter. Yes, air enters the filter "from below" rather than "from the top" (just like ALL of the LS1 f-bod airboxes, DEE DEE DEE). But you are WRONG that the hood is "just for looks". The opening of the hood that funnels outside air to the inside is aligned with the larger airbox opening when the hood is closed and provides the cold blast of air from outside directly towards the airbox opening. While there is no seal between the airbox (on the radiator support) and the hood to prevent air from under the car from reaching the airbox intake, the majority of the air coming into the airbox comes from the outside via the hood, especially when the car is moving. But then again, if you actually OWNED a WS6, you'd know this.

    Speaking of "marketing hype", WS7?? WHO's defined WHAT exactly THAT is??

  12. #72
    car enthusiast djvaly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag View Post
    the majority of the air coming into the airbox comes from the outside via the hood, especially when the car is moving.
    true but the hot air that is under the hood comes into mix with the cold air from outside and is ok comparing to the sealed ram air version, or cold inducted air from under / in front of the radiator. therefore,
    ram air pckg < cai

  13. #73
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    1998 Trans Am WS6 'Vert

    Quote Originally Posted by djvaly View Post
    true but the hot air that is under the hood comes into mix with the cold air from outside and is ok comparing to the sealed ram air version, or cold inducted air from under / in front of the radiator. therefore,
    ram air pckg < cai
    I don't disagree that sealing the airbox to the hood is an improvement (smoother, more direct flow especially if you de-baffle the hood). However, considering that the airbox opening is in front of the radiator, how is it that the air from that cavity in front of the radiator gets hot in the first place, especially if the car is moving?

    BTW, nearly ALL cars built in the last 30 years have some sort of ducting that drew in cooler air from in front of the radiator. Some systems were better than others, but the free HP from cold air is old-school knowledge. Shoot, when I was a child, I remember my dad cutting a hole in the radiator-support of his '62 Sedan DeVille and running a piece of flexible hose from it to the air cleaner for a crude CAI setup. Considering my dad was about as anti-hot-rod as anyone I know, I'd have to say he got that idea from Popular Science or somewhere claiming it would help MPG.
    Last edited by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag; 01-05-2007 at 09:34 AM.

  14. #74
    Junior Member killerinparadise's Avatar
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    Cool

    Here is a site where they tested the effectiveness of the ws6 ram air http://www.ws6.com/ramtest.htm

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerinparadise View Post
    Here is a site where they tested the effectiveness of the ws6 ram air http://www.ws6.com/ramtest.htm
    Very interesting, although note that was on a '96 WS6 (LT1). Ignoring the "hood up" runs (since that can't happen on the street w/o adverse effects, LOL), there appears to be some mid-range advantage as well. Not quite sure if I fully understand why the hood appears to become restrictive at high RPMs primarily in 5th gear but less so in 3rd or 4th. Almost like there is an "aerodynamic peak" that fades away at way-high MPHs.

  16. #76
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag View Post
    Very interesting, although note that was on a '96 WS6 (LT1). Ignoring the "hood up" runs (since that can't happen on the street w/o adverse effects, LOL), there appears to be some mid-range advantage as well. Not quite sure if I fully understand why the hood appears to become restrictive at high RPMs primarily in 5th gear but less so in 3rd or 4th. Almost like there is an "aerodynamic peak" that fades away at way-high MPHs.
    Pressure and turbulance.

  17. #77
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    Check out the ne GMHTP March 07' issue with the vararam test on a new vette. dyno shows nothing but it picked up 2 mph in the 1/4 mile. That system is supposed to increase the "RAM EFFECT".

  18. #78
    Member anniversary30's Avatar
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    I have heard the same as earlier posted. It's only really effective over 100 mph. We are talking stock for stock. WS6 vs regular TA. Cold air intake fixes that for the regular TA. But lets face it. That hood kicks ass !!!

  19. #79
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    O'h my........ I can't believe that someone pulled this thread back put the basement!!!!
    It's dead people aren't going to agree we found this out a while ago!!!
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

  20. #80
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    this is old
    Last edited by Secret Formula; 02-20-2007 at 02:33 PM.

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