View Poll Results: Is Ram Air BS?

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Is Ram Air BS?

This is a discussion on Is Ram Air BS? within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Sarge Listen guys...lets simplify for effect here. Your motor is a great big vacuum pump. Sucking air ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Listen guys...lets simplify for effect here.
    Your motor is a great big vacuum pump. Sucking air in as the pistons go down stroke and blowing air out as they go up. Now your humming along at 2200 rpm going down the highway...your engine is sucking air at a much greater volume than any passive airflow could ever provide. In other words.....your motor is sucking in 600CFM of air from wherever you have placed your air intake/filter setup. To get a "Ram-Air" to push 600CFM of air into your motor would require you to have a velocity of somewhere around 155mph.
    So if a fella has a KN CAI setup mounted over to the drivers side down behind the headlight sucking air into the intake at 600CFM......and a WS6 Ram Air is sucking 600CFM through its nostrils...your both sucking 600CFM of air into your motor regardless of where that air is coming from.
    The real consideration is to get colder denser air into your intake versus heated engine bay air being sucked into your intake....so moving your intake away or out of the engine bay area is what you are after.
    Explain it to 'em, Sarge. Especially about the colder, denser air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Listen guys...lets simplify for effect here.
    Your motor is a great big vacuum pump. Sucking air in as the pistons go down stroke and blowing air out as they go up. Now your humming along at 2200 rpm going down the highway...your engine is sucking air at a much greater volume than any passive airflow could ever provide. In other words.....your motor is sucking in 600CFM of air from wherever you have placed your air intake/filter setup. To get a "Ram-Air" to push 600CFM of air into your motor would require you to have a velocity of somewhere around 155mph.
    So if a fella has a KN CAI setup mounted over to the drivers side down behind the headlight sucking air into the intake at 600CFM......and a WS6 Ram Air is sucking 600CFM through its nostrils...your both sucking 600CFM of air into your motor regardless of where that air is coming from.
    The real consideration is to get colder denser air into your intake versus heated engine bay air being sucked into your intake....so moving your intake away or out of the engine bay area is what you are after.
    yea what he said

  3. #23
    Senior Member Orcus79's Avatar
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    HAs anyonr ever heard of teh Ram Air Series of Motors from Pontiac back in the sixties and early seventies when muscle cars were muscle cars. There were a few differnt ones all based off of the 455 super duty motor if i'm not mistaken. They all had "Ram Air" hoods with forward facing scoops but where sealed to the carb base. It was a marketing thing and did provide cooler air, as we all know cooler air equals better power. Also smooth air helps as it moves faster and can get ionto the cylinders easier, hense the hood on the WS6 its a faster, straighter shot to the air box with little defelction and little heat gains being picked up from the radiatior and A/C condensor.

    Also as metioned in a recent issue of Popular Hotroding, the intake issue I beleive, they likened the LSx series intake to that of a Tunnel Ram Style not related to thr Ram air debate but an intake that is very reliant on intake velocites.

    Do the math a freer intake charge, a slightly better exhaust and differnt fuel curves in the computer could make a big differance.

    CFMs can also confuse people CFM is volume its how much material can be moved through or by somthing in a given time max. Just as important is velocity how fast it moves and effeciency how smooth is the movenment.

    Air is fluid, replaice the air with water and you would see just how turbulent the intake charge is on a non ram air car vs a ram air car. Why do you think an exhaust system can make or break the power of a motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orcus79 View Post
    HAs anyonr ever heard of teh Ram Air Series of Motors from Pontiac back in the sixties and early seventies when muscle cars were muscle cars. There were a few differnt ones all based off of the 455 super duty motor if i'm not mistaken. They all had "Ram Air" hoods with forward facing scoops but where sealed to the carb base. It was a marketing thing and did provide cooler air, as we all know cooler air equals better power. Also smooth air helps as it moves faster and can get ionto the cylinders easier, hense the hood on the WS6 its a faster, straighter shot to the air box with little defelction and little heat gains being picked up from the radiatior and A/C condensor.

    Also as metioned in a recent issue of Popular Hotroding, the intake issue I beleive, they likened the LSx series intake to that of a Tunnel Ram Style not related to thr Ram air debate but an intake that is very reliant on intake velocites.

    Do the math a freer intake charge, a slightly better exhaust and differnt fuel curves in the computer could make a big differance.

    CFMs can also confuse people CFM is volume its how much material can be moved through or by somthing in a given time max. Just as important is velocity how fast it moves and effeciency how smooth is the movenment.

    Air is fluid, replaice the air with water and you would see just how turbulent the intake charge is on a non ram air car vs a ram air car. Why do you think an exhaust system can make or break the power of a motor.
    are you trying to say that 4th gen ram air isnt a gimic?

  5. #25
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    LOL....no he is taking the position I had in a war over at another forum....and I agree with him on the "smoothness" of the intake air versus turbulent air totally and completely.....I was having words with a group of knuckleheads trying to sell Australian over the radiator intakes to the GTO folks and I ask how they overcame all the turbulence found in front of the radiator and the war was on I stand firm that you put your intake outside or at least away from the engine bay heat in in "smooth" air and you will win everytime....put it out front in the turbulent or "dirty" air and you will lose any gains found from the cold air access due the turbulence introduced.
    You guys have all seen wind tunnel testing and the steady line of smoke hitting the front of the car and going over the car.....if you look... the air forms a "loop" in front of the car and gets smooth over the hood and over the windshield etc. That force in front is what I call dirty air...it is turbulent and causes uneven flow .....you want clean and steady air flow.....this is why NASCAR gets it air from right at the base of the windshield and not stuck out in front of the car....and by the way they are selling those things for like $600 US Dollars to dipshits here cuz they look "cool" and the Australians been using them for years. I love my Australian cousins....but just because they do something dont mean I'm gonna do it....ever had vegamite?

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    ok I guess I'll chime in on this now too. To be perfectly honest, at lower RPM's and at low speeds its not effective. At the higher RPM's and speeds, the inductions system pressurizes to literally ram air into the engine picking up ambient cold air and not stag air from under the hood or close to the radiator where air is most turbulent. In proven real world tests, trap speeds were up on a ram air system. But stock ram air sucks because of the restrictive baffles and gap between hood and box. By sealing and removing the baffles and adding a lid to dump the silencer off, ther will be a difference up top for sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by KageSS View Post
    What did it look like?
    Too tired to look for pics. HE made a nice setup though that fed the airbox from the nostrils, real professioanl looking. had rain blockers and all with it. Better than my ghetto ass AC foam setup that I am running. Hell all I know is it seals perfect to my hood and Volant CAI, style points mean crap to me

  9. #29
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redphoenix1998 View Post
    ok I guess I'll chime in on this now too. To be perfectly honest, at lower RPM's and at low speeds its not effective. At the higher RPM's and speeds, the inductions system pressurizes to literally ram air into the engine picking up ambient cold air and not stag air from under the hood or close to the radiator where air is most turbulent. In proven real world tests, trap speeds were up on a ram air system. But stock ram air sucks because of the restrictive baffles and gap between hood and box. By sealing and removing the baffles and adding a lid to dump the silencer off, ther will be a difference up top for sure
    Yeah I have seen a few of those test....and the talk of pressurizing the air....yes...basic physics...it is true the air pressurizes at the nostrils of the intake....what those test dont bring to the forefront is the fact (both of the ones I have seen anyway) is they are compared to the stock box drawing heated air from the radiator/engine compartment....they attribute the gains to "ram air" and not where it belongs to cold air....IMHO RamAir looks cool....but that's about it....Cold air performs...

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    Again it bears repeating. Ram Air is not "Ram Air'' per say, it is a really good CAI if setup properly. Debaffled, sealed, etc. etc. etc.

  11. #31
    Rollo Tomassee AKIRA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Yeah I have seen a few of those test....and the talk of pressurizing the air....yes...basic physics...it is true the air pressurizes at the nostrils of the intake....what those test dont bring to the forefront is the fact (both of the ones I have seen anyway) is they are compared to the stock box drawing heated air from the radiator/engine compartment....they attribute the gains to "ram air" and not where it belongs to cold air....IMHO RamAir looks cool....but that's about it....Cold air performs...
    So the gist of what youre saying is..

    Cold air > Ram air
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  12. #32
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKIRA View Post
    So the gist of what youre saying is..

    Cold air > Ram air
    Cold Air Intake is not Ram Air. Ram Air is a marketing myth that perpetuates the myth that these scoops "ram" more air into the intake than non RamAir cars. And that is not a fact at all.

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    Ram-Air is having a "Real Fast" doorcar with an Aerroscoop RAMMING air at half track when your breaking 140-150 in the 1/8 mile......... You'll not going to see a Ram at speeds under 150mph!!!!!!

    We've tested the scoop facing both directions on a 7.90 door car.....There was 5-7 hundredths dirrerence....And that on a car that ran on a index so it WAS VERY CONSISTANT!!!!
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

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    man this thread is being beat like a dead horse..i think its about time to lock it really.

  15. #35
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    My unlce was a little strapped for cash on his race car so he didnt by a hood for is 70 camaro, but he did buy a scoop. He was running 7.48's for 3 runs straight. I told him to turn the scoop around and see what it did. He ran 7.36 (It was in the 1/8th mile) I am guessing that it performed better because it was not forced to induce all air it only took as much as the motor needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 98Camarod View Post
    My unlce was a little strapped for cash on his race car so he didnt by a hood for is 70 camaro, but he did buy a scoop. He was running 7.48's for 3 runs straight. I told him to turn the scoop around and see what it did. He ran 7.36 (It was in the 1/8th mile) I am guessing that it performed better because it was not forced to induce all air it only took as much as the motor needed.
    less drag on the car

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Cold Air Intake is not Ram Air. Ram Air is a marketing myth that perpetuates the myth that these scoops "ram" more air into the intake than non RamAir cars. And that is not a fact at all.
    You didnt answer my question, silly.

    Oh wait! I didnt add the "?"

    I did ask Cold air > Ram Air ?

    But now I want to ask...are you saying Ram Air doesnt exist in newer vehicles?

  18. #38
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    A true functional ram air is something like this: http://www.vararam.com/

    ...where everything is sealed off completely. The setups the f-bodies come with from the factory aren't designed like this. The effective differences between a non-ram air and a factory ram air f-body are outweighed by other varialbles like exhaust systems, weight differences, rotational mass differences (Z28 wheels/tires don't weigh the same as SS wheels/tires), etc. You cancel out all of those other variables and I bet you're looking at a difference of less than .050 seconds in the 1/4 mile.
    Last edited by SSpdDmon; 12-08-2006 at 09:34 AM.

  19. #39
    Impounded YoMommasTA's Avatar
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    pull out in frt of a semi,then you'll feel ram air!

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