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Oil in Intake, Exhaust, Air filter

This is a discussion on Oil in Intake, Exhaust, Air filter within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Ok, here goes. My baby has been parked for a while. I first noticed that the oil level was low, ...

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    expensive tires az gt eater's Avatar
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    Oil in Intake, Exhaust, Air filter

    Ok, here goes. My baby has been parked for a while. I first noticed that the oil level was low, and it was running like shit.

    I installed headers, offroad y, plugs, wires, and had it tuned by Frost. While removing the headers, I broke the last stud off on driver's side in the head, and while installing the headers, I broke off the stud directly in front of the previously broken stud. That makes two in a row on the driver's side from the back of the block. I know this is bad. The exhaust is blowing by here,but I thought, this is Arizona, and summer nonetheless. It smelled bad inside the car during hard accelleration, and I planned on trying to EZ out the broken studs. Remember, all this time, it never dropped below 90, even at night.

    I also pulled, well, ripped out the AIR pumps,and hoses.

    Then, I noticed it using oil, and then noticed burnt oil on my back bumper. Then , I noticed it blowing oil out the tailpipes. I removed the air filter, and IT even had oil in it. I pulled the O2 sensors, and cleaned and reinstalled them. It was chugging on the highway, and throwing codes for both banks.

    Problem still persisted. Car runs fine in closed loop, but the instant it turns to open loop, it throws codes and chugs.

    I literally had to pull and clean the MAF, cause there was soo much oil SITTING in the Maf. My question, is , are these problems unrelated? I know I need to pull those broken studs. And replace. Was I supposed to cap some component of the AIR system? Is this where all the oil is coming from? And what tips/tricks can you advise me to pull those studs? I am working with a VERY limited budget, or else I would look at new heads. Any help would be appreciated.

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    Member WS6SP33D's Avatar
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    sounds to me as if you have a worn/broke ring if not multiple and if you have been driving a while with two broken header bolts there is also a chance of burnt valves. Yes these problems all run together and will get worse as time goes. I would suggest get the bolts extracted and replaced then do i compression test asap.

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    ^^ This. It's also possible that your rings and valves are loaded up with carbon and other gunk from lower quality fuels and the ravages of time. A compression test will help determine the problem. If you continue to run the car as is, then a catch can should be installed on the PCV system to keep oil out of the intake. Do you run a K&N or other brand oiled air filter? If so, ditch it for a paper filter or one of the new nanofiber dry filters like the Amsoil Ea air filter.

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    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Sounds like trouble with oil ring control and burned valves. You can do a compression test without fixing the header studs but remember you may not get an accurate figure from that cylinder. You can also do a " Wet Compression " test after the dry test. This will give you an idea of how the rings are doing. with all the plugs out, just squirt a little motor oil in the spark plug hole and do the test again. If your compression comes up then you have a ring problem and you are due for a rebuild.
    In short. If youy have low compression on the dry test and it does not go higher on the wet test then you have burned valves, if the compression comes up on the wet test then you have bad rings. if the compression is low on both tests then it is time for a total rebuild. I hope this helps you out, good luck.

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    Actually, the lack of a good header-to-head seal should not have any impact on the compression test.

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    Member WS6SP33D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Actually, the lack of a good header-to-head seal should not have any impact on the compression test.
    ^^exactly it does not matter if the headers are off when you do a compression test, the results will still be the same. Also when doing the compression test let it set with the gauge connected and check for leak down. A lot of people will crank check pressure and quickly move to the next cylinder.
    Last edited by WS6SP33D; 11-09-2011 at 11:36 AM.

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    expensive tires az gt eater's Avatar
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    Well, you guys have me thinking pretty hard about this. What do I need to do to fix bad oil control rings? I need to pull the motor, heads, and oil pan, then pull the pistons and install new rings? Any idea how much that would cost me? I can pull the motor myself, but, can I do the rings myself,too? I need to get a cherry picker, and a motor stand to turn the motor over, right? I have a very broad idea of how to do this, and can usually follow a book with directions pretty good. Is this doable by myself? Sounds like you guys have the equipment, and wouldn't take you long. If I am going to do all this work, wouldn't it be better to rebuild the whole engine? How much would that cost me? And how much of a difference in cost would it be to stroke it, and put forged components in? The heads are out of the question for now, for sure. I've seen how much those cost. Can I do the cam while I have it out, and then just put heads on it later? How many of these parts can I use that are used? I know that I have a lot of questions. This is so far out of my area of expertise it isn't even funny.

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    Member WS6SP33D's Avatar
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    As far as cost goes man that is all according to want brands and stage on everything you go for. You don't necessarily have to rebuild the whole engine but if you can afford it and you have time i would go for it. You aslo want to take time and check all your bearings and inspect the cylinder walls cross hatching especially if ring is broke. I would also suggest a hone at minimum.

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    Before we go yanking a motor apart, have we done any diagnostics yet? Did you do a compression test? Take a look at the plugs to see if they are oiled down?

    You can try an easy fix first -- although stastically small, it's possible that things are just carboned and junked up enough inside the ring packs to be causing an issue. Preferred method is a dose of AutoRx, less preferred is to hit it with Sea Foam and watch the smoke show (go on YouTube and you'll see what I mean).

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    Member WS6SP33D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Before we go yanking a motor apart, have we done any diagnostics yet? Did you do a compression test? Take a look at the plugs to see if they are oiled down?

    You can try an easy fix first -- although stastically small, it's possible that things are just carboned and junked up enough inside the ring packs to be causing an issue. Preferred method is a dose of AutoRx, less preferred is to hit it with Sea Foam and watch the smoke show (go on YouTube and you'll see what I mean).
    Exactly^^ Don't just jump in and do a total breakdown until all the diagnostics and trouble shooting are done. The info and answers here are mostly just suggestions. having never saw your car we cannot give you a definite solution. Although if you have any other questions or concerns feel free to ask.

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    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Snap on tools makes a visual inspection tool which works very well. It has a color camera on a 3' wand and has a 6" color screen. The camera has a light which is controlled by the base unit and the camera is color with auto focus. That being said, you can pull the plugs and run the camera ( 5mm ) into the cylinder and move it around to check valves, combustion chambers, cylinder cross hatch, and piston tops for cracks. The unit is a few hundred dollars but you can find them on ebay for about half price.

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    ^^ Harbor Freight also has an inspection camera that you can buy for right around $100. I have one of the earlier units I bought on clearance and it works nice. Very nice to have one, but as I rarely need it I just couldn't justify spending a pile of money.

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    expensive tires az gt eater's Avatar
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    It just seems too coincidental that the rings would go bad. This is keeping in mind the recent poorly done header job I did. What with the broken bolts and all. I am thinking I am dealing with a bad valve. For the cost of pulling the head and possibly repairing it, I think I need to save up and get some used 243 or 799 heads, and go back with those. And, honestly, when I pull the heads, I should be able to determine if the rings are bad, right? 400-600 for used heads, maybe a couple hundred to have the heads looked at and p/p by a machine shop. New bolts, gaskets, cam,pushrods,lifters. Ugh, looks like it is gonna be down till May. Then, If I want to have it forged, I havent lost anything except the head bolts and gaskets, right?

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    Member WS6SP33D's Avatar
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    you can check rings with a simple compression test before pulling the heads. Also you get get a set of 5.3 243's or 799's for around $300

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    Do a leakdown test at TDC (so both valves are closed) and check how much leakage you get. Then check if you have leakage past the rings (pop oil cap off and listen), intake valve (listen at throttle body), exhaust valve (listen at exhaust) or in case of a head gasket, look for bubbles in the radiator/expansion tank
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    Quote Originally Posted by WS6SP33D View Post
    you can check rings with a simple compression test before pulling the heads. Also you get get a set of 5.3 243's or 799's for around $300
    Is there anything special about the "yellow" springs? I saw a set on ebay with these.

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    Member WS6SP33D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by az gt eater View Post
    Is there anything special about the "yellow" springs? I saw a set on ebay with these.
    Yes LS6 spring (yellow) Most of the aftermarket cams will have high .5xx+ lift even down in the low 220 duration. At that point, since they yellow LS6 springs are good for around .550" lift, they won't work with a decent (or big) aftermarket cam. Best ti figure what heads and cam you are going to go with then decide on springs.

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    expensive tires az gt eater's Avatar
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    So I would only be able to reuse the heads themselves, and replace all the components to make them work with a bigger cam?

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    Member WS6SP33D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by az gt eater View Post
    So I would only be able to reuse the heads themselves, and replace all the components to make them work with a bigger cam?
    Replace springs and pushrods.

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    Retired NOT tired SteveC's Avatar
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    What about "increased crank case pressure"?

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