Not starting

**Tx98Formula** · 06-03-2010, 04:55 PM

I finally got my motor in and everything hooked up tonight. I took it out to clean up the engine bay, replace the wiring harness and put a stall in. So anyways i get everything hooked up except for the exhaust and just wanted to fire it up since its been so long... I turned the key and all i heard was the starter, sounded like it was spinning but not catching the flex plate basically... I don't get it, i put the starter back on with the motor out of the car after putting in the stall, everything seemed to go just fine, the bolts lined up perfectly.. What am i missing here?? anyone have any ideas? is it possible for the starter to not line up correctly even with the bolts lined up perfectly??

This is my first time doing anything major with the car, so sorry for any questions that seemed stupid... I just want my car back on the road...

**Tx98Formula** · 06-03-2010, 05:54 PM

is it possible that even with the starter bolted in its still not making contact with the flexplate, or could the started be messed up?? it worked prefectly fine before i pulled the motor out...

**cammed goat** · 06-03-2010, 05:58 PM

Either the starter is misaligned, or the bendix is shot. I doubt the flexplate is in backwards.

**planemech2** · 06-03-2010, 05:59 PM

Take the starter to O'reilly's and have them test it for free. See if the bendix is moving to engage the flywheel. If not, replace starter. If it does move, you may have to shim the starter to get it to engage properly.

**Tx98Formula** · 06-03-2010, 06:05 PM

what is this bendix? i've never heard of that before..

also the flex plate was never removed so i now that is in right.. i don't see how i could of misaligned the starter but i guess anything is possible... as soon as i figure out what this bendix is i'll check that out too.. I need to run to O'reilly's tomorrow anyways since the trans cooler i got only comes with 4 clamps and i needed 5...

**cammed goat** · 06-03-2010, 06:10 PM

The bendix is what spins the starter gear and forces it forward to mesh the gear to the flexplate to start the engine. When that goes, the starter gear will spin freely without moving forward to mesh with the flexplate. You will hear that "HMMMMMMMMMMM" noise.

**Tx98Formula** · 06-03-2010, 06:17 PM

thats pretty much what it sounds like, just like the starter is spinning freely... great.. i'll pull it out tomorrow and have it checked out.

thanks guys!

**cammed goat** · 06-03-2010, 06:36 PM

Let us know how ya make out.

**Tx98Formula** · 06-04-2010, 02:35 PM

took the starter off today and took it up to autozone, it checked good up there... so i guess i am going to try and shim it and see if that works... don't know why it would all of a sudden be different but we will see.

**Smittro** · 06-04-2010, 03:51 PM

Bendix is the name of a company not any part on a starter (common mistake).. The starter gear is called the starter "drive". The fork that moves it is call an engagement arm/lever/fork.. If you hear a humming sound with no starter spin then the solenoid is junk. It's possible you cracked the solenoid cap hooking it up or bumped it durring the reinstall of the engine.. A free spinning starter that is not engaging with the motors flex/fly wheel is usually and indication that the solenoid plunger is either not moving the starter drive, not moving the drive far enough, or the starter drive is shot itself.. If the starter needs shimmed it will "clank" when it hits the fly or it will crank and make terrible sounds while turning the engine.. A weak solenoid can sometimes engage the starter drive but not be strong enough the hold it in place when the starter armature begins to spin.. I've remanned an easy 500+ starters working for a rebuild shop and have remanned everything from 50 & 40mt's for tractor trailers to little nippondenso's to antique starter generaters.. I've seen it all.. Pull the starter and have it tested best way to tell.. Take the battery with you and have it load tested.. A cheap new battery can sometimes die just from over cranking..

**Smittro** · 06-04-2010, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Tx98Formula

took the starter off today and took it up to autozone, it checked good up there... so i guess i am going to try and shim it and see if that works... don't know why it would all of a sudden be different but we will see.

Did they test the solenoid for magnetic pull strength?? Like I said it may engage but lack the strength to hold it engaged to the fly..

**Smittro** · 06-04-2010, 04:11 PM

Testing for magnetic strength.

1. place starter in a vise snugg it down don't crank it too tight..
2. IMPORTANT! disconnect the hot lead to the starter motor. It is the little metal tab or wire comming from the field case to one of the terminals on the solenoid..
3. put your battery on the floor.. Then hook up jumpers..
4. hook a jumper cable to the neg(-) side of the solenoid..
5. touch the pos(+) cable to the hot terminal on the solenoid.
this will engage the solenoid and the starter drive will kick out to the starting possition.
6. use a screw driver to try to push the starter drive back into the rest possition..
DO NOT LEAVE IT HOOKED UP FOR MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS @ A TIME YOU WILL COOK THE SOLENOID..
If the drive is easily moved back then the "hold" side of the solenoid field coil is cooked replace the solenoid.
If the starter drive begins to chatter.. replace the solenoid..

Many folks run out and buy a new starter when all they need is a new solenoid.. 80% of the remanned starters we buy still have the original armature and field coils in them.. Some places don't even replace the starter brushes if they show little signs of wear.. They slap on a new solenoid and clean up the rest of the unit and back on the shelf it goes.....Good luck..

**Tx98Formula** · 06-04-2010, 07:52 PM

all autozone did was just put it in thier little machine, hooked up a couple battery cables, typed in the part number for the start and pressed start... It activated the starter for a second, the guy said the starter drive moved and it passed the test on the computer... There is another place here in town that i am going to take it to that rebuilds starters and can actually test it agianst a load (like as if it was in the car). So hopefully this weekend i can take it up there and check it out, i don't want to spend $175 on a new starter if i don't have to..

thanks for the advice though, thats good stuff to know!!

**Smittro** · 06-04-2010, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Tx98Formula

all autozone did was just put it in thier little machine, hooked up a couple battery cables, typed in the part number for the start and pressed start... It activated the starter for a second, the guy said the starter drive moved and it passed the test on the computer... There is another place here in town that i am going to take it to that rebuilds starters and can actually test it agianst a load (like as if it was in the car). So hopefully this weekend i can take it up there and check it out, i don't want to spend $175 on a new starter if i don't have to..

thanks for the advice though, thats good stuff to know!!

no prob

**Cutlass** · 06-05-2010, 10:58 AM

if it didn't need to be shimmed before then it shouldn't need shims now. Just reinstall it and see if it works this time. Maybe the connections were loose or something else funny going on.

**Tx98Formula** · 06-05-2010, 06:23 PM

i put it back in when i got off of work today and still its a no go... i looked up in there and it definatly doesn't need shims, it looks like it is sitting in the perfect spot so i have no idea what is going on...

i don't see how the wiring could be hooked up wrong, the positive side has a notch out where the positive cable from the battery goes into, the small ignition cable coming off of the wire harness can only fit onto the small post, and the ground the comes out of the cap, well i never removed that so its still in the same spot, i beleive the ground is the post closest to the block..

all i can think is like Smittro said and the solenoid somehow is bad.. i have no idea, its still just making the hum sound when i try to start it... I took it back out of the car, hopefully monday i can make it to the place in town that tests starters... I have buddy with a mustang thats talkin some smack about his new aviator 4v motor he is puttin in, so i need to get this thing running asap to shut him back up!! haha

**Smittro** · 06-05-2010, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tx98Formula

would it be worth it to pick this starter solenoid up at advance auto parts and just swap it out and try that? is this even that exact part that i would need? and how dificult is it to swap the soleniod? looks pretty easy...

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...CGRP2020A____#

I'd give it a try.. Yes it's as easy as it looks.. Just watch how the old one comes off and reverse the procedure to install the new one.. Just don't over tighten the solenoid studs.. Prolly take you less than 10min. Even if you have'nt done one b4... Good luck keep us posted...

**Tx98Formula** · 06-05-2010, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Smittro

I'd give it a try.. Yes it's as easy as it looks.. Just watch how the old one comes off and reverse the procedure to install the new one.. Just don't over tighten the solenoid studs.. Prolly take you less than 10min. even tho you have'nt done one b4... good luck keep us posted...

awesome... I'm still going to take it to get checked out on monday, found out that the place here in town that tests them, also rebuilds them and what not so we'll see what they say.. Hopefully it is just the solenoid, i'd much rather spend $25 to fix it then $175 for a new one!!!

thanks again guys! and i'll let you know how it turns out

**Tx98Formula** · 06-05-2010, 07:32 PM

i also realized earlier that i missed something when putting the motor/trans back in, not exactly sure what its for but the i guess drain line that come off of the top of the trans and attaches to the torque arm... yep forgot to hook that up, so looks like i'll be dropping the x-member tomorrow and hoping i can get it low enough to reach up there and hook it up..