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Newbie LS1 owner... need help please

This is a discussion on Newbie LS1 owner... need help please within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; ok, i havent check the plugs yet but here is some data i grabbed with my scanner. these first readings ...

  1. #21
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    2001 Camaro SS vert

    ok, i havent check the plugs yet but here is some data i grabbed with my scanner. these first readings are from hooking it up without ever starting the car.
    tp sensor .47v
    iat 66 deg.
    iac position 209 cnt
    ect 63 deg
    ltft bank1 25%
    ltft bank2 25%
    stft bank1 0%
    stft bank2 0%
    loop status open

    then i took some readings with the car running
    first i check the stft and the graph just flatlined 0% both banks didnt change by giving it throttle or anything and i dont know if it should.

    I then read the o2 sensor readings- it showed sensor 1 both banks(front) fluctuate between 9-65 mv( i thought they should read like 440 something)
    it showed the sensor2 readings in the 440s. the car doesnt have the rears so am i wrong on what i am reading here? I then read the engine misfire datastream and it would get misfires on multiple cyclinders- the misfires would come and go with each cycle it ran other cycles would have no misfires. now, please remember i really have no idea what i am doing with my scanner i just pick tests that it shows i can run and i am showing what it shoed.
    i am gonna look at the plugs after it cools back down

  2. #22
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    until the car and O2's warm up they will read funny. Your ltft's are maxed at 25% so you're lean. Your ECT temp looks fine. I would stay the course and start looking for exhaust and vacuum leaks. You have some extra air getting in there somewhere.

  3. #23
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    ok, checked the plugs.. all look perfect to me light tan in color.. now for the part I am hoping is the problem. I got to the back plug on the passenger side and thought it would be easier to jack the car up and get to it from underneath. I get positioned under the car and shine the light up into the block and find black smoke around the rear plug area, low and behold the back two headers bolts are missing! surely it cant be somwthing that simple causing such a big problem can it??? oh yeah, thanks for all the help everyone again escpecially you Orion!

    edit: found the tag on the headers, they are pacesetters

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    The exhaust leak would allow air into the system and result in erroneous readings from the O2 sensor. While the engine is cold it does not accept feedback from the sensor. Once warmed up though, it switches over and reads the O2 sensor output to adjust your air/fuel ratio. That's probably why the engine runs fine cold, but then has problems after it warms up. It sees all that extra air and tries to compensate by adding fuel, when in fact the air is being introduced after the combustion chamber.

  5. #25
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    ok thanks that explains it a little for me. does that go along with when i am driving the car and as long as i dont have to sit at a light to long the car keeps running? it has to sit for a minute or two before it dies and then if you try to restart it immediately it wont start, you have to let it sit for a couple minutes- does the computer have to figure itself out ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboar View Post
    ok thanks that explains it a little for me. does that go along with when i am driving the car and as long as i dont have to sit at a light to long the car keeps running? it has to sit for a minute or two before it dies and then if you try to restart it immediately it wont start, you have to let it sit for a couple minutes- does the computer have to figure itself out ?
    Not sure what is going on with that. Fix the header leak and see what happens. As long as you do not have any other leaks in the intake system, that are allowing unmetered air into the engine, you should be good.

  7. #27
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    the only issue I have with that is that both banks are reading +25% so either you have leaks on both sides or you have another issue along with that side leaking. Either way fix the one you found....I'll dig up the thread and pitch on those bolts as it slips my mind right now. Do your headers have emmisions fittings and didn't you say it had nitrous? Is it a wet or dry kit and where is it plumbed into the intake at? Pre or post MAF sensor?

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    the only issue I have with that is that both banks are reading +25% so either you have leaks on both sides or you have another issue along with that side leaking. Either way fix the one you found....I'll dig up the thread and pitch on those bolts as it slips my mind right now. Do your headers have emmisions fittings and didn't you say it had nitrous? Is it a wet or dry kit and where is it plumbed into the intake at? Pre or post MAF sensor?
    the only thing the headers have on them is the o2 sensors. yes it has nitrous, there are two lines one plumbed in to each side of the lid before the maf. Ther are 2 solenoids mounted on the front of the radiator support. I dont know the difference between a wet or dry system
    Last edited by bigboar; 01-02-2010 at 06:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    the only issue I have with that is that both banks are reading +25% so either you have leaks on both sides or you have another issue along with that side leaking. Either way fix the one you found....I'll dig up the thread and pitch on those bolts as it slips my mind right now. Do your headers have emmisions fittings and didn't you say it had nitrous? Is it a wet or dry kit and where is it plumbed into the intake at? Pre or post MAF sensor?
    Those readings were with the key on, engine off. He said with the engine running they leveled off at 0.
    I say tighten/replace the loose/missing header bolts, unhook the battery for a few minutes and then start driving around and see how it goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlass View Post
    Those readings were with the key on, engine off. He said with the engine running they leveled off at 0.
    I say tighten/replace the loose/missing header bolts, unhook the battery for a few minutes and then start driving around and see how it goes.
    he said key on engine off both long term trims are at 25%....key on engine on the short term trims are at 0% and that's in open loop before the car is warm and in closed loop. Bet if it stayed running and went to closed loop both of those short trims go through the roof.

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    Details, details.... Your right, I read that wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cutlass View Post
    Details, details.... Your right, I read that wrong.
    easy to do when you read a bunch of threads. I've been guilty of it many many times before. I've also went in the completely wrong direction answering someone by not thinking something through.....it happens.

    I'm just going by his description of symptoms. Both banks are maxed lean so it has to be something that effects both banks. Doesn't effect the car while it's in open loop so it has to be something that's a closed loop value. Unplugging the MAF and putting it in speed density didn't help so that pretty much rules out the MAF. I'm kinda out of ideas but if he can wait until the weather here warms up I'd take a drive out there and look it over for him. Too damn cold to do much right now as it's like 24 degrees outside today with a wind chill of 13. Not really good car working on weather.
    Bigboar, have you checked fuel pressure just to humor yourself? I meant to ask earlier how you were getting your AFR values? Does the car have a wideband?

  13. #33
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    well, i got an update... I was looking in the engine compartment today and i noticed something that just baffles me. my slp maf has a connector that came with the unit and then another end hangs out and the stock harness plugs into that. when I had unhooked the maf the other day I did so athe the maf housing itself. Well, i started looking at the connection where the stock harness plugs in and i find that it looks like somehow someone connected it up backwards. the stock harness red wire was going to the blue wire on the maf, the black in the middle was the same and then the white or yellow wire from the stock harness was going to the red on the maf and the little plastic piece that locks the harnesses together was on the wrong side. Could them have doing that possibly fried the MAF?? no matter what, someone was a moron. I appreciate the offer Orion and I might have to end up taking you up on that in the spring if I cant figure this thing out, but I hope I dont have to.

    edit: havent checked the fuel pressure, what is a wideband? my scan tool showed the afr values
    Last edited by bigboar; 01-04-2010 at 08:04 PM.

  14. #34
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    The connector should only plug in one way -- I am not certain of the wire functions without checking a schematic, so hard to tell what it was, or was not, doing.

    Our cars utilize "narrow band" O2 sensors to provide feedback to the PCM. As you noted on your scanner, they read in millivolts and something in the neighborhood of 450 mV is close to the desired 14.7:1 a/f ratio. A wideband sensor is used for gauges and scanners and generally has an output range of 0-5 volts. This provides a more useable signal as the narrowband is constantly cycling up and down.

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    yeah i know, it was somehow put on reversed though....the tab on one connector was on the opposite side of the latch on the other connector that is supposed to go over the tab.

    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    The connector should only plug in one way -- I am not certain of the wire functions without checking a schematic, so hard to tell what it was, or was not, doing.

    Our cars utilize "narrow band" O2 sensors to provide feedback to the PCM. As you noted on your scanner, they read in millivolts and something in the neighborhood of 450 mV is close to the desired 14.7:1 a/f ratio. A wideband sensor is used for gauges and scanners and generally has an output range of 0-5 volts. This provides a more useable signal as the narrowband is constantly cycling up and down.

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    That may explain why both banks were calling for enrichment... we'll have to see what 0rion thinks.

  17. #37
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    I would think that the maf being plugged in wrong would just put the car in speed density and you *should* get a code for the MAF failing. I'm not familiar with the wiring of the slp maf as I don't have one. Maybe someone else with the slp maf can verify the wire colors for you. If you unplugged the maf completely then the car should've went into speed density and wouldn't have been using maf values anyhow. Have you checked hoses for vacuum leaks? Check the pcv hose that goes into the side of the intake on the passenger side and see if it's cracked on the backside where it turns to go into the intake.
    Does your scanner have the ability to export data to excel format?

  18. #38
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    well, i got an update. checked the fuel pressure at the fuel rail today. when i first start the car it registers 40lbs and then it gradually continue to drop down to around 20lbs and then when the car dies it drops to zero. so, I am going to put in a new pump and fuel filter. It seems weird to me though how if you run the car hard it stays running, but surely that would have to be the problem wouldnt it?

  19. #39
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    sounds like a good start, start with the fuel filter before the pump, it may all that it needs.

  20. #40
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    ok, will do. also, I am pretty sure my slp maf is still working correctly after i changed the plug connection. I put a friends stocker on it today and it didnt help then i put the slp back on and tried again. once i unplugged it with the car running it through a maf code.

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