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Newbie LS1 owner... need help please

This is a discussion on Newbie LS1 owner... need help please within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Hi all, I just joined and this is my first post so please bear with me. I just bought a ...

  1. #1
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    2001 Camaro SS vert

    Newbie LS1 owner... need help please

    Hi all,
    I just joined and this is my first post so please bear with me. I just bought a 2001 camaro ss verti that has a problem. The car has 62000 on it and it is very clean. I bought the car for what i think is a great price knowing that it has an issue at idle.
    The mods that I know of on the car are, slp maf, k&n filter, coated headers(slp?), stall, gear, nos, cat removed, and I am assuming it has been tuned at some point because it doesnt throw a code for the rear o2 sensors. I dont know if the engine has had any internals done.
    Now, for my problem, the car starts and idles good for a couple of minutes and then all of a sudden it starts losing idle and dies. If you try to start it right back up it will not start but if you wait just a couple of minutes it starts and idles fine again and then the same thing. If you drive the car it runs great but then after it sits at idle for a few minutes the same problem happens.
    I own a otc genisys scan tool but have very limited ability with it as I only use it for airbag/abs at my collision shop. I ran a scan on it and it brought up p0135 and p0155 o2 dtcs so i replace the o2 sensors but that doesnt help. After doing that i cleared the codes and then i got p0171 and p0174 fuel trim lean codes. I dont want to keep guessing at it so i am hoping maybe someone can help me with what to do or how to use my scanner and what to look for. I did figure out how to check the air/fuel ration and it is running extremely rich. It was reading 12.7-13.5 depending on how much throttle i gave it.
    I cleaned the maf, I unplugged it(didnt help). I then unplugged the tps sensor and the car does seem to idle but then when you touvh the gas it runs like crap. I let the car idle and plugged the sensor back in and the car died immediately.
    I would really appreicate any help as I would like to try to figure this out with having to pay to take it to a mechanic. It really has me baffled as when you run the car hard it is unbelievably fast.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Orcus79's Avatar
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    well, first start, look for a broken PCV line, it like to dry out and crack at the TB, ditch the MAF for a stocker same with the K&N, and clean the TB.

    Also take a look at the plugs to see what is really going on.

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    Agree. First thing to try is clean the MAF -- CRC makes a specialty MAF cleaner that you can buy at most parts stores. You are better off with a stock MAF vs. the SLP unit unless your PCM has been tuned to work with it. Our car had an off idle stumble when we bought it. A prior owner had de-bladed and de-screened the MAF. Replaced it with a stocker and the problem went away.

    If that doesn't work, check for vacuum leaks as stated and then maybe try cleaning the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve on the throttle body. If that is sticking or gunked up it might cause the problems you have described.

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    2001 Camaro SS vert

    thanks for the replies. I looked at the pcv and the tube looks good. I also took out the iac and wiped some gunk off of it. It didnt help either. are there any other common places for vacuum leaks? I will take the plugs out and look at them monday when i get to work. I dont have the stock maf but i will see if i can come up with one to try. I really appreciate any and all help

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    Senior Member Orcus79's Avatar
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    one place I know of are the bellows between the maf and tb, I have heard of that cracking and letting unmetered air into the system. Take it off and give it a flex to see if you can find it.

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    ok thanks, i have another question.. wouldnt a vacuum leak casue it to run lean? the reason i ask is because even though i am getting fuel trim lean dtcs when i hook my genisys up to the car it is reading an air/fuel ratio of 12.7 to 13.5-1 which would actually be rich wouldnt it? It also smells like it is running rich and the exhaust actually gets my eyes burning and there is black suit at the end of the exhaust

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    Senior Member Orcus79's Avatar
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    yea it could, vacuum leaks can cause strange things to happen, part of the smell and fumes are from there being no cats. Doing some quick reading would say that it is lean. but you may not be burning all the fuel either giving you the gas smell.

    So you may also have a minor ignition issue, anoher reason to check the plugs and see what they are doing.

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    2001 Camaro SS vert

    ok thanks Orcus

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    Senior Member Orcus79's Avatar
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    welcome, I do what I can with what little I know.

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    I'm not familiar with that scan tool but can you log fuel trims? Do you have any exhaust leaks pre-O2's? It kinda sounds like you either have an exhaust leak or a vacuum leak. Sounds like the car is showing lean and the O2's are telling it to dump fuel. See if you can read your trims which it sounds like you might be able too. Read your LTFT's in % and post up what they are for bank 1 and 2.

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    Life in the Fast lane sunsetorangess's Avatar
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    I would be willing to bet the problem is with the SLP Maf or in the tune. My bet is towards the maf. Try to come up with a stocker.
    J
    2001 SS, Its not the car its the Driver that matters....

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    2001 Camaro SS vert

    ok, I am sure the tool will do it, It is the same scanner as the mac mentor and the matco determinator. They are made by otc and otc calls theirs the genisys. I will try and figure out how to.. I will post what it reads, thanks
    Last edited by bigboar; 01-01-2010 at 06:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunsetorangess View Post
    I would be willing to bet the problem is with the SLP Maf or in the tune. My bet is towards the maf. Try to come up with a stocker.
    J
    that was my first thought too but he says he cleaned it and unhooked it with no change. The delay makes me think it's doing it when it goes to closed loop.


    Just had a thought......use the scan tool to see what your ECT is reading. I've seen those go bad and as soon as the car goes to closed loop it'll flood the car out....had that happen to a buddies vette. See what your coolant temp is reading in the scan tool and make sure it's not reading way colder than it should be.

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    Junior Member SPDYGON's Avatar
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    all of the above but i ran my car with a slp maf no tune , k&n filter and had no problems , his maf might be damage .

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    you know what, i remember reading it and it read 160 and when i read the description for the ect function on the scan tool it said the value was normally between 185-215, but then again I dont know if that reading is wrong because that is the engine coolant temperature sensor isnt it? and the temp might have only been 160 then.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    that was my first thought too but he says he cleaned it and unhooked it with no change. The delay makes me think it's doing it when it goes to closed loop.


    Just had a thought......use the scan tool to see what your ECT is reading. I've seen those go bad and as soon as the car goes to closed loop it'll flood the car out....had that happen to a buddies vette. See what your coolant temp is reading in the scan tool and make sure it's not reading way colder than it should be.

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    In addition to the ECT reading, the scanner should also show if it is running in open or closed loop as a secondary test, shouldn't it?

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    Retired NOT tired SteveC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunsetorangess View Post
    I would be willing to bet the problem is with the SLP Maf or in the tune. My bet is towards the maf. Try to come up with a stocker.
    J
    I totally agree, I do not believe the vehicle is tuned properly, especially if the performance converters O.D. is smaller than stock, the idle must be raised on the PCM or the vehicle will not idle properly. Your idle A/F ratio SHOULD be 14.7:1, with a WOT of 13.5:1.

    I heard alot of negative things concerning the SLP MAF'S, the stock unit should be fine up to 500 HP.

    SteveC

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigboar View Post
    you know what, i remember reading it and it read 160 and when i read the description for the ect function on the scan tool it said the value was normally between 185-215, but then again I dont know if that reading is wrong because that is the engine coolant temperature sensor isnt it? and the temp might have only been 160 then.
    you may have a 160 stat in there. What I'm talking about is when you first start the car...you can verify your coolant temp before you even start it. It'll take some really stupid cold readings to effect the car that much. Example is my buddies vette....it was ~50 degrees outside so the ect should read around that if the car is dead cold. His was reading like -30 degrees or something like that. The car would start and run normal and as soon as it switched to closed loop it would flood itself out. Just something for you to check.
    Where is Hamilton at in the state?
    Last edited by 0rion; 01-01-2010 at 07:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveC View Post
    I totally agree, I do not believe the vehicle is tuned properly, especially if the performance converters O.D. is smaller than stock, the idle must be raised on the PCM or the vehicle will not idle properly. Your idle A/F ratio SHOULD be 14.7:1, with a WOT of 13.5:1.

    I heard alot of negative things concerning the SLP MAF'S, the stock unit should be fine up to 500 HP.

    SteveC
    it really sounds like a closed loop issue and not a maf issue.....if it were a maf issue it would do it as soon as the car started for the most part. Him unplugging the maf would've put the car in speed density so unless it's cammed or something like that I don't really think it's maf related. Idle afr also has a lot of built in adders so depending on the temp's the afr will change around. For instance it'll command a much richer afr at 10 degrees than it will at 110 degrees.

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    ok Orion, I will check that possibly in the morning and see what it reads, I am about 30 miles north of cincinnati inbetween cinci and dayton ohio. Thanks for all your help

    edit: also I dont know if the car has been cammed or not (could that matter). I bought the car from a guy locally who is in construction and with the way building is down he needed the money badly. He didnt do any of the mods-it was the person he got the car from so I dont know all exactly that is done to it. The only info he had was that the guy showed him some time slips in the low 12s. The car has great oil pressure(40lbs at idle) and the engine doesnt have any noises.
    Last edited by bigboar; 01-01-2010 at 08:51 PM.

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