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need some help/advice

This is a discussion on need some help/advice within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; long story short put in a new engine and now the car drives like a heaping pile of crap. She ...

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    Member phoenix05's Avatar
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    need some help/advice

    long story short put in a new engine and now the car drives like a heaping pile of crap. She cant pick up speed properly anymore in fact the only time she picks up speed properly is going downhill. When going up hill she loses speed fast like she doesnt have the power to get up the hill.
    On the highway she doesnt even have enough power to get into 6th anymore and driving in 5th may or may not work depending on the slope of the road. So the gf and I took the car back to the mechanic today(we picked her up on sat) and she got there first by a few min(mind you we left at the same time and she outpaced me in her 97 pos toyota corolla ) and as I'm pulling in I hear the mechanic saying its probably the clutch.
    Now my knowledge of cars is pretty remedial but that sounds like a load of bs, but again idk for certain so I'm asking you guys if that could possibly be the issue? Also when I started explaining the issue he did change his answer to saying it could be the fuel pressure regulator since I guess they had turned it down when they swapped out the engine. That sounds like it could make more sense but again I'm not too sure if that would cause this issue I'm having.
    Anyways I was looking for some help/advice on if any of those 2 reasons he gave me make sense and if you guys have any ideas on what would be causing this issue? The mechanic will be giving me a call here a little later after he takes a better look at it, but I would like to have some other opinions on the matter.
    As always any help is appreciated

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    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    A slipping clutch could cause your car to feel as though it is lacking power - however it is usually accompanied by higher than normal rpms or varying rpms due to the clutch slipping. Do you still have cats on the car - if so, they may be clogged. This will cause a loss of power. Lower fuel pressure could cause the problem - why did they turn it down? What exactly did you have done to the car - obviously a engine swap, but what engine was removed and what engine was put in?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    ^^This plus - Did you put same type of engine back in? Asking because of PCM Tune, wire harness, sensors, etc. If say you take a LT1 and swap with a LS1, I don't think the LT1 PCM programing would run a LS1 engine. If this is the case check with Frost, He's our resident tuner and is highly recommended (I have a tune from him also) Other possibilities : O2's, MAF sensors,

    Engine needs:
    Air - MAF Sensors? MAF Screen clear


    Fuel - Fuel filter - last time it's been change?, Fuel Pump - going bad, has enough pressure to support engine, Fuel Injectors?

    Spark - Plugs, wires, coils - how old? Are they firmly seated? Are all of your grounds grounded?

    Have you gotten any codes, post them up. This will help. Was this a new crate engine or a rebuilt?



    Slipping clutch would show/sound different. Mostly you would grind gears while shifting, slipping would be a short thing vs a constant underpowered feeling like an engine bogging down barely running
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 07-21-2010 at 01:09 PM.

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    Member phoenix05's Avatar
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    Thanks for reply

    The rpms seem fine and constant the car itself just has problem moving as if I was towing something extremely heavy or something. No cats on her. The engine swap was just LT1 for LT1 the previous owner of the car had done numerous mods and ran her at the track often so she ran strong but the engine was beat up so I had planned to switch it out with a stock one and build everything how I wanted and now that process as begun(a little over a year later). Basically the mechanic turned it down because the engine is not as high performing as the previous one and doesnt need it set so high<---basic jist of what he said. Other than that just had a new fuel pump, and opti put in.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Another thing I would like to ask. Is this the same mechanic that installed new engine? I asked because while he was swapping the old/new he would have seen the condition of the clutch and should have spoke up and tell you that the clutch was going or needed to be changed. In order to swap engines you have to remove the bell housing and tranny, thus exposing the clutch and fly wheel to move it over to the "new" engine.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix05 View Post
    Thanks for reply

    The rpms seem fine and constant the car itself just has problem moving as if I was towing something extremely heavy or something. No cats on her. The engine swap was just LT1 for LT1 the previous owner of the car had done numerous mods and ran her at the track often so she ran strong but the engine was beat up so I had planned to switch it out with a stock one and build everything how I wanted and now that process as begun(a little over a year later). Basically the mechanic turned it down because the engine is not as high performing as the previous one and doesnt need it set so high<---basic jist of what he said. Other than that just had a new fuel pump, and opti put in.
    If I understand you right - the mechanic DE-TUNE what was in there because you went back to a stock motor basically?


    In this case I highly recommend you talk with FROST. The mechanic probably used a hand held tuner programmer and may have deleted some "important" stuff he shouldn't have or loaded incorrect timing tables.

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    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    If I understand you right - the mechanic DE-TUNE what was in there because you went back to a stock motor basically?


    In this case I highly recommend you talk with FROST. The mechanic probably used a hand held tuner programmer and may have deleted some "important" stuff he shouldn't have or loaded incorrect timing tables.
    ^This. You have the car at the mechanic's now, so see what his answer is first. But something is definately not right.

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    Member phoenix05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    ^^This plus - Did you put same type of engine back in? Asking because of PCM Tune, wire harness, sensors, etc. If say you take a LT1 and swap with a LS1, I don't think the LT1 PCM programing would run a LS1 engine. If this is the case check with Frost, He's our resident tuner and is highly recommended (I have a tune from him also) Other possibilities : O2's, MAF sensors,

    Engine needs:
    Air - MAF Sensors? MAF Screen clear


    Fuel - Fuel filter - last time it's been change?, Fuel Pump - going bad, has enough pressure to support engine, Fuel Injectors?

    Spark - Plugs, wires, coils - how old? Are they firmly seated? Are all of your grounds grounded?

    Have you gotten any codes, post them up. This will help. Was this a new crate engine or a rebuilt?



    Slipping clutch would show/sound different. Mostly you would grind gears while shifting, slipping would be a short thing vs a constant underpowered feeling like an engine bogging down barely running

    you snuck yours in there before I finished my other reply =p.

    MAF should be ok recently cleaned it but I can give it another cleaning.

    I actually still need to throw in the new fuel filter it has been sitting in my front seat forever I had gotten that a few months ago hoping it would solve the stuttering issue I had when taking off in first. No idea on the fuel pump could be but it was working fine with the other engine which would lead me to believe it shouldnt be an issue, but like I stated before I'm no expert so idk if it might need to be adjusted.

    yes wires are new had them change out the old ones when they put the new engine in so those should be fine.

    The engine itself isnt brand new it was used with a few miles but the engine itself is good im pretty sure from the way it starts up compared to my old one.

    ya I really dont think its te clutch since the clutch itself feels fine and I mean it was working perfectly fine with the previous engine dont see why that would all of a sudden cause it to have problems getting to speed limit on the highway and cause it to have issues going uphill.

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    Member phoenix05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    If I understand you right - the mechanic DE-TUNE what was in there because you went back to a stock motor basically?


    In this case I highly recommend you talk with FROST. The mechanic probably used a hand held tuner programmer and may have deleted some "important" stuff he shouldn't have or loaded incorrect timing tables.
    Ok I was sort of thinking it may be a tuning issue but wasnt sure what the scope of such an issue would be, but ya it sounds like along with the new motor they did change some settings, so what your saying that it could be the cause of a pos tuner added with someone who doesnt completely understand how to tune it correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    ^This. You have the car at the mechanic's now, so see what his answer is first. But something is definately not right.
    Yea I'm def going to see what kind of conclusions he comes to first and then slap them up here and take some actions from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenix05 View Post
    so what your saying that it could be the cause of a pos tuner added with someone who doesnt completely understand how to tune it correctly?
    Absolutely. If someone doesn't know how to tune it correctly - a LOT of things could be causing your problems. A lot of things are controlled by the tuning - IDK how much is accessable by a handheld tuner, but you could definately screw things up with one. He never should have given it back to you in that condition.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    FROST - member and a sponsor.

    here's his web site: http://tunedbyfrost.com/

    Normally you will send your PCM to him with a work sheet off his web site. If you time it right and the mail system works in your favor, you can send it and have it back in a week.

    I would call him because I believe he deals with LS engines mostly, but he may be able to lead you in the right direction if he can't work on your PCM.

    Many members here have his tune and swear by them. (me included)

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    He never should have given it back to you in that condition.
    Agree, however it also depends on what the contract of work was. If it was a simple engine swap then the mechanic should not have gone into the PCM. If the contract was for 100% engine running, then oh yeah I 1000% agree.

    I bet this shop is just a standard mechanic shop that doesn't specialize in tuning/dyno or performance work.

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    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Agree, however it also depends on what the contract of work was. If it was a simple engine swap then the mechanic should not have gone into the PCM. If the contract was for 100% engine running, then oh yeah I 1000% agree.

    I bet this shop is just a standard mechanic shop that doesn't specialize in tuning/dyno or performance work.
    True - I guess it would depend on what work was agreed upon. I would think that the shop would have checked to make sure the engine was running properly before returning it to the customer though. Unless, like you said, the contract was strictly for an engine swap. Most shops I know of won't do that though. They don't want the headache of people complaining that something is wrong.

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    Member phoenix05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Agree, however it also depends on what the contract of work was. If it was a simple engine swap then the mechanic should not have gone into the PCM. If the contract was for 100% engine running, then oh yeah I 1000% agree.

    I bet this shop is just a standard mechanic shop that doesn't specialize in tuning/dyno or performance work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    True - I guess it would depend on what work was agreed upon. I would think that the shop would have checked to make sure the engine was running properly before returning it to the customer though. Unless, like you said, the contract was strictly for an engine swap. Most shops I know of won't do that though. They don't want the headache of people complaining that something is wrong.
    Ya the only thing I signed him up for was the engine swap and then changing out some of those other things while the engine was already out. This is also by no means a shop that would specialize in performance or tuning I think because he is really close with gfs family/dad he may have been trying to go above and beyond and may have f'd up in the process.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    You might be able to go to a GM Dealership and asked them to reflash your PCM to a stock program. I read on one of the threads one of the mods suggest that a couple of days ago. Maybe worth checking into.

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    Be careful if there are any tuning issues. You don't want to be sitting on a ticking time bomb if there are lean codes not being shown with a possibly turned off CEL.

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    any updates?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    any updates?
    Yes just received a call back today and was coming in to update you guys.

    The guy told me that everything checks out fine not throwing any codes and that the timing of the cylinders is good too(?). He said that the problem is most likely due to a slipping clutch but from symptoms described here it doesnt seem like that would be the case. So I told him thankyou for taking the time to relook over everything and I'm going to go pick it up and see about getting her tuned up properly which seems like would be the more likely cause of my problems.

    Think I'm going to call over to a local place here that sarge referred me to awhile back to see if they can do the work if not I will send frost a msg to see if he can help. Thanks for the input guys and I'll keep you informed to the outcome.

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    master or slave cyl might be shitting out... also when they did the engine swap did they change the trans fluid and the fluid for the clutch???

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    Member phoenix05's Avatar
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    Ok well just got back from the shop when we got there the guy was acting kind of weird didnt seem like he wanted to talk to us basically just walked off pulled the car out said there she goes and walked off. The car though drove ALOT better no questions about it. She accerlated (though with a stutter but I've had that issue for awhile now so I'm thinking that may be the clutch issue he was stuck on or I need to throw in that fuel filter I've had sitting around for awhile now) and she also didnt lose any speed going up hill where before she would drop a good 20mph. I was also able to get up to and beyond speed limit on the highway and at one pt could have even dropped her into 6th. I'm thinking she could still use a tune because she is eating up gas like there is no tomorrow(just jad to fill the tank after only 80mi mostly highway ) We are thinking the guy may have realized his mistake and didnt to say anything cuz he knew he f'd up the first time. Regardless I'm thinking he may be onto something with the clutch due to the stutter it gives when shifting.

    Also unsure if the fluids got changed out for the trans and clutch but we have his number so I can double check on that.

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