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Metal shavings on cam while doing ls6 vct

This is a discussion on Metal shavings on cam while doing ls6 vct within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Smittro Well not necassarily rebuild it. But you could take the opportunity to get the engine on ...

  1. #21
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Well not necassarily rebuild it.

    But you could take the opportunity to get the engine on a stand and give it a more thorough cleaning without fully tearing it down.

    I also agree with the others though to some extent.. That is to say you may get away with just pulling the cam and trying to clean things up.

    Only problem I see there is you risk draging any residual filings through and across the cam bearings.

    Scoring a bearing is never good, scoring an already worn one crosswise the dirrection of spin "could" be fatal.

    This is just my .02. I say these things in hopes of saving a perfectly good engine as it sits.

    If a cam bearing turns in its bore you're done.

    But it's your car the choices are yours to make.
    Trying to decide if it is worth cleaning and putting back in to only to find that my cam bearings get all fucked up and then have to take it out again to replace the engine or to just find a reasonable replacement. If I were to remove the engine and put it on a stand what is a good brand for a stand to go with? Is there a step by step guide somewhere how to take my engine out? I am guessing the best way would to be from the bottom right? I think I need some tall jacks and jack stands if that is the case.

    If I decide to just replace it I was looking at replacing it with this L92: http://www.ebay.com/itm/General-Moto...item3cc504ff4e. What all would need to be done to make the L92 work? I know they have a different relucter wheel so I believe I need a converter box for the pcm right?

    Thanks everyone for your help I really appreciate it.
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 04-19-2012 at 06:53 AM.
    1998 Trans Am WS6 - Phantom
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  2. #22
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Best stand for the $$ would be one form NAPA. Harbor Freight has some affordable ones but I've read some bad reviews. You can pull the motor from the top but it is a lot of work. A LOT.

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA:2768009
    Best stand for the $$ would be one form NAPA. Harbor Freight has some affordable ones but I've read some bad reviews. You can pull the motor from the top but it is a lot of work. A LOT.
    Okay thanks, how far do I need to jack the car up in order to drop the engine? I have a 14 inch hydraulic and a 22 inch bottle jack at, I probably need a bigger one don't I?

  4. #24
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Would it be easier to pull the oil pan off and flush the engine while it's in the car?

    I don't know how hard it is to pull the pan on these things, just a thought. to maybe make things easier for you.

  5. #25
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    you will need to raise the block off the engine mounts to access the bolts and be able to pull the oil pan. The K member is in the way.

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    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    I would still just pull the cam and clean everything. I don't think you need to go to all the trouble of completely tearing the motor down. If you would've started it maybe but not with pretty much all of it sitting on one little section of the cam. The bigger pieces is all you're worried about anyhow for the most part. The dust size pieces are in a motor all the time anyhow to some degree from parts wearing.

  7. #27
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Jeremy ls1camino would be the best guy to ask He's done several engine swaps and can tell you exactly what to do.

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    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion:2768017
    I would still just pull the cam and clean everything. I don't think you need to go to all the trouble of completely tearing the motor down. If you would've started it maybe but not with pretty much all of it sitting on one little section of the cam. The bigger pieces is all you're worried about anyhow for the most part. The dust size pieces are in a motor all the time anyhow to some degree from parts wearing.
    Alright I will start with that but shouldn't I remove the pan to make sure I get all of the metal pieces out? I do have a magnetic drain plug if that makes a difference in getting all the bits out.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA:2768020
    Jeremy ls1camino would be the best guy to ask He's done several engine swaps and can tell you exactly what to do.
    Thanks, I'll pm him. Hopefully I can clean it and just be good at least long enough to save up for the engine I want to build.

  10. #30
    Member cowstandmoto's Avatar
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    That's true about Jeremy. And he is a super nice guy. He helped me out a couple of years ago on something I wanted to do to my car. Great Guy.

  11. #31
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Like I said I agree with Orion, but I also agree with FBJ.

    Again personally I would @ the very least drop the pan.

    Then at least you can clear out anything that may have come to rest on the crank or is clinging to the walls of the block webs as well.

    It's sort of a catch 22, as either way you're going to need to get into that motor to inspect and clean things up.

    On older engines like the old chevy small block you could pull the distributor and run the oil pump without turning over the engine which would be a great help in situation like yours.

    But the LS1 does'nt use a conventional oil pump so basicly you're left with pulling the cam and or oil pan, or removel of the engine.

    Orion is absolutely right it is the larger particles you're mainly concerned with as there's always some metal floating around anyways.

    But it would put it in my head wondering if I got it all out or not.

    To answer your engine stand question, you can get them just about anywhere, some are under $100 some are quite a bit more.

    Jegs, advance, pep boys, napa, will all carry them, though Napa may be the most pricey of the bunch as that's how they seem to be with everything.

    I know all this probably leaves you wondering which way to go still.

    But one thing is for sure,, unless you replace the entire engine, you MUST get into your current engine.

    Got to keep that stuff from get spread throughout your motor, whether it stays in the car or you yank it out to clean it.

    The other guys are right also you'll have to pull the k-member loose to get to your oil pan.

    I wish there was an easier way to go about anything that we've said here but there is'nt.

    Good luck!

    Oh and, PS,

    Self inficted wounds are always the most fun huh?

  12. #32
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    If I do remove the motor I feel like I should replace it with another engine, like the l92 or something similar. To me that is a lot of work not to do anything to it besides cleaning it. Not to mention the L92 is a better platform isn't it basically a ls3 with a smaller cam and tuned for regular gas? Well I just need to decide what direction to go now.

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    I feel your pain. I replaced the seals on the timing cover of the SBC in my '89 pickup. I had to lower the oil pan and I wound up dropping a nut in to the pan. After an hour I came to the decision there was no way I was going to pull it out of there and decided after 190K on this engine it's time to replace it with my spare. That's my latest project.
    As far as your LS engine goes, I documented my engine swap on the "other" LS website. I did the work myself and it took a long time for a number of reasons, but it was successfully completed and I now have over 12K since the swap. I pulled my engine from the top. Once everything is removed, it is actually very easy to remove the block. It's all the hookups such as exhaust, brackets, and electronics that are a pain in the rear. Take pics and document everything. It will help you in the long run. There will be things that you forget. I had a log book that I wrote down all the necessary torque values and checked those off when they were completed. It gets complicated and it's not an easy job. Get a flywheel holding tool; borrow or buy one. You'll need it. When the engine comes out the top the balancer has to be removed. There is about an inch of room to spare between the cowl and the radiator support area. I did NOT have to remove the hood. I had plenty of room to work with it open.
    It helps if you've done engine swaps before. I have experience and this one was not easy. If you've never done one I'd be leery about making a 4th gen your first swap. Good luck.

  14. #34
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Rich:2768299
    I feel your pain. I replaced the seals on the timing cover of the SBC in my '89 pickup. I had to lower the oil pan and I wound up dropping a nut in to the pan. After an hour I came to the decision there was no way I was going to pull it out of there and decided after 190K on this engine it's time to replace it with my spare. That's my latest project.
    As far as your LS engine goes, I documented my engine swap on the "other" LS website. I did the work myself and it took a long time for a number of reasons, but it was successfully completed and I now have over 12K since the swap. I pulled my engine from the top. Once everything is removed, it is actually very easy to remove the block. It's all the hookups such as exhaust, brackets, and electronics that are a pain in the rear. Take pics and document everything. It will help you in the long run. There will be things that you forget. I had a log book that I wrote down all the necessary torque values and checked those off when they were completed. It gets complicated and it's not an easy job. Get a flywheel holding tool; borrow or buy one. You'll need it. When the engine comes out the top the balancer has to be removed. There is about an inch of room to spare between the cowl and the radiator support area. I did NOT have to remove the hood. I had plenty of room to work with it open.
    It helps if you've done engine swaps before. I have experience and this one was not easy. If you've never done one I'd be leery about making a 4th gen your first swap. Good luck.
    I haven't ever done a ls swap before or any engine swap but I may do it although, I am leaning towards just cleaning the shrapnel out. In order for me to not feel paranoid, I am going to have to replace the cam, oil pump, timing chain and gears. I have a question, since I am going to remove the oil pan is there a better aftermarket or oem one to go with? Maybe this will help with my oil leak problem to replace the gaskets on it too. While I am removing the oil pan would it be a good idea to replace my motor mounts, I have Spohn solids that I have yet to put on?
    Last edited by 98TransAmWs-6; 04-20-2012 at 06:29 AM.

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    You're very ambitious. I'll say that. In the interest of safety and not having a lift, I worked on my car from the top. I had Rhino ramps under the wheels on both ends, and I jacked up the car for additional clearance and supported it with jackstands. I also used 4x4 wooden blocks in addition to support the trans and engine while I was using the floor jack. A T56 is one heavy trans. Unless you're Hulk Hogan you're not going to manhandle that sucker under the car. Since I was working on the car by myself I had to double and triple up on supports to do this work safely.
    There are no replacements for the F-body oil pan. That oil pan is specific to 4th gens. It has a cutout for the steering rack that aftermarket oil pans don't have. My LS6 came with the CTS/V oil pan and I had to swap back to the F-body oil pan. There is a fitting on the left (driver's side) of the engine you're going to have to get familiar with if you remove the oil pan. You have to pre-oil the engine with an LS engine pre-oiler. When the oil pan is removed the oil runs out of the galleys and the pre-oiler is the only way to put it back. It's not like the SBC's where you could run the oil pump through the dist. hole with an electric drill to pre-oil the engine.
    There are tools you're going to need like the flywheel holding tool and a balancer remover/ puller. The LS balancer is a pain to remove. I broke one puller (US made) before successfully pulling it with a Harbor Freight puller. That annoyed me. To break the crank bolt loose, I put a breaker bar and socket on the bolt and pushed on it with my foot while holding on to parts of the undercarriage of the car.
    You have an advantage in that you are a lot younger than I. Like I said, think safety and don't take any unnecessary chances if you decide to do this work.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Rich View Post
    You're very ambitious. I'll say that. In the interest of safety and not having a lift, I worked on my car from the top. I had Rhino ramps under the wheels on both ends, and I jacked up the car for additional clearance and supported it with jackstands. I also used 4x4 wooden blocks in addition to support the trans and engine while I was using the floor jack. A T56 is one heavy trans. Unless you're Hulk Hogan you're not going to manhandle that sucker under the car. Since I was working on the car by myself I had to double and triple up on supports to do this work safely.
    There are no replacements for the F-body oil pan. That oil pan is specific to 4th gens. It has a cutout for the steering rack that aftermarket oil pans don't have. My LS6 came with the CTS/V oil pan and I had to swap back to the F-body oil pan. There is a fitting on the left (driver's side) of the engine you're going to have to get familiar with if you remove the oil pan. You have to pre-oil the engine with an LS engine pre-oiler. When the oil pan is removed the oil runs out of the galleys and the pre-oiler is the only way to put it back. It's not like the SBC's where you could run the oil pump through the dist. hole with an electric drill to pre-oil the engine.
    There are tools you're going to need like the flywheel holding tool and a balancer remover/ puller. The LS balancer is a pain to remove. I broke one puller (US made) before successfully pulling it with a Harbor Freight puller. That annoyed me. To break the crank bolt loose, I put a breaker bar and socket on the bolt and pushed on it with my foot while holding on to parts of the undercarriage of the car.
    You have an advantage in that you are a lot younger than I. Like I said, think safety and don't take any unnecessary chances if you decide to do this work.
    Then, call me Hulk, i have r and r'd my tranny completely by myself three times. With out a tranny jack. Sorry, had to interject that bit. Gorilla wrenching!

  17. #37
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Couldn't I just use an impact wrench to break the crank bolt loose? Also what is the best way to jack up the engine can I just do it from the oil pan or will that hurt it? If there is a better spot let me know.

  18. #38
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Couldn't I just use an impact wrench to break the crank bolt loose? Also what is the best way to jack up the engine can I just do it from the oil pan or will that hurt it? If there is a better spot let me know.
    Yes you can.. I'd start on a lower setting and gradually raise pressure on the gun adjuster..

    ***if your gun has this feature, most do near the air chuck***.

    I have also used a block of wood between the crank shaft pully base to raise an engine enough to get to the pan.

    Once the engine is raised you can safely support the engine with a good (DIY) cross bar such as the one located in this thread:

    You may have to scroll down the page, but it's a sound SAFE way of supporting your engine AFTER it's been raised.

    K-member swap and upgrades
    Last edited by Smittro; 04-20-2012 at 09:51 PM. Reason: fixing
    :\Users\Steven\Pictures\d6ftg5nh.gif


    Suggestion: If you are particularly irritated by another member's posting habits and are constantly fighting the urge to flame them, you can click on that person's profile, and select "Add to ignore list." This will make that person's posts invisible to you.

  19. #39
    Moderator 98TransAmWs-6's Avatar
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    Alright cool btw that link isn't working for me.

  20. #40
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98TransAmWs-6 View Post
    Alright cool btw that link isn't working for me.
    I may have been editing when you first tried it here try this one.

    K-member swap and upgrades
    Last edited by Smittro; 04-20-2012 at 09:56 PM.

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