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LS1 swap or build up LT1

This is a discussion on LS1 swap or build up LT1 within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; im looking into getting a 95 or so camaro as a project, i dont know a whole lot about the ...

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    LS1 swap or build up LT1

    im looking into getting a 95 or so camaro as a project, i dont know a whole lot about the lt1 and ls1 motors. my question is, would i be better off building up the lt1 or would i be better off fitting in an ls1? the car will prob have moderate to high milage, and perfer 6 speed. thanks alot....

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    This is up to you and your wallet my friend.

    What is your end goal? HP wise?

    The LS1 is a much better motor than the LT1 in terms of being able to work on it and having less probs for daily use. But you can build an LT1 to be king kong just like you can an LS1. If you have NO motor right now, then I would say go with the LS1. If you have an LT1 right now, then maybe you should just consider building it. Get a great set of heads, a healthy cam, fuel pump, exhaust, cold air, and some N20 and you will be whacking stangers and f-bodies for the most part.

    Its all on how you build it and what your end goal is.
    If you want about 700-800HP max, then build your LT1.
    If you want like 1200HP, then go with an LS1 style. (LS2 as long as your doing it, is what I would buy... look on ebay for brand new crate engines people buy and then decide not to use...)

    I dont think anybody can really help you with this until you decide what your end goal is with the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black99Z28
    Its all on how you build it and what your end goal is.
    If you want about 700-800HP max, then build your LT1.
    If you want like 1200HP, then go with an LS1 style. (LS2 as long as your doing it, is what I would buy... look on ebay for brand new crate engines people buy and then decide not to use...)

    I dont think anybody can really help you with this until you decide what your end goal is with the car.
    1200HP? shit 700 800 HP is not even most peoples "end result". Maybe way back in fairy tail land but most people are not thinking thier car is going to have 1200HP. Not disagreeing with you or others, LS1 is the way to go. But i think you numbers need a checking.

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    Sorry Hi-Po, maybe where you come from those numbers are not real, but where I come from people are running 8s, 9,s 10s, on the street. A friend of mine has a 9 second Grand National, do you know how much power you need to get a car that big to move that fast? Check your numbers bud. 500 or 600 HP isnt sh!t anymore. Hell most of these morons with newer mustang cobras are pushing 500 HP at least, and I whack those things on the street.

    To get a 4th gen camaro into the low 9s or high 8s you need 1100HP+.
    Again, to you this may not be real, but I know people building 9 and 10 second cars all around me. Those numbers are real, you just need the $$$ to do it.

    But saying 700-800HP isnt realistic is just stupid. Its REALLY REALLY common. I see you are from Michigan, I dont imagine there are too many fast cars around unless you live in Detroit or something.

    P.S. I am not saying by throwing one of these motors in he is going to have that kind of power. It takes thousands of dollars buliding up the engine with the right block (LS2 block for hi HP applications) heads, fuel system, cam, and just about everything else. If this guy is just looking for a 12 second car like you, he should just get an LS1 throw a bottle on it and call it a day.
    Last edited by Black99Z28; 05-01-2006 at 06:06 AM.

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    well the idea of the car will be future supercharger or turbo, depending on positives and negatives of each. to start, the car would prob be a late 90s style camaro or trans-am w/ 6 speed unless im talked out of it. i first want to redo the suspension, braking, equipment. once thats finished id like to either look into perfornance, and more than likely the car will have high milage, so i was throwing around the idea of ls1 or newer motor, or rebuild, bore etc the lt1. id like it to be street reliable, but can hold its own against other gms, fords etc. i have no clue on est hosepower since everything new is coming with 400 etc.

    few questions,
    6speed vs auto?
    supercharger vs turbo vs NOS/both??
    LT1 vs LS1 (or newer, which one) 11-12s 1/4
    which mods should i look at first??

    also in my idea was the very slight idea of using a 1989 style camaro irocz if so then it would have an ls1 or newer motor as long as fitment would be alright... as i said this is a plan right now, im trying to get my ideas straight and a specific goal planned for it, ive done it before without a plan and spent way too much on wasted stuff or labor

    thanks for all your help
    trey

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    Alright alright alright, The guy posted that he didnt even have the car yet. SO, iassumed he wasnt looking to get 1200, 9 seconds otta it lso he did not state that it was a drag car. Usually when people are looking for a drag engine only they will say it. I can agree with you on so many things you said but you come off kinda assholish so i wont. My buddy's brother also has a Grand National doing low tens. His also is driven on the street but the boost is turned way down. your statement about no fast cars in michigan was Ignorant. Michigan has plenty of automotive events/plants/speed shops. I live 30 minutes from Detroit and work in the city. You do not need to tell me that the power is capable. Im well aware cowboy.

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    Hi Po, I hated to get ignorant on you, but you started that saying the numbers were outrageous. Now all of a sudden they arent?
    Ohh well, Im not going to argue with you.

    Darkass:

    The auto transmissions in those cars BREAK time after time.
    They suck, stick with the stick if you like it. If you must have an auto get a TH350 built for the car.

    Power Adder? They all do the same thing, add more air and fuel into the combustion chamber. Supercharger and Turbo also add pressure. This is why guys who run large boost get an iron block. You dont need that with spray. Supercharger will cost in the middle (get a procharger). Turbo is VERY VERY expensive not only for the kit, but the install is a B!tch. If you are dripping with money, then get a turbo.

    If you are on a budget, then just spray the damn car. The stock pistons will handle 150HP all day long, but you need a different fuel pump unless you only want to spray upto 120HP. And thats if the heads and cam are stock.

    If you are looking for the cheapest buildup that will last, get an LS1.
    Do heads, cam, fuel pump, and a tune. Then add the spray. READ INTO nitrous. DOnt be a moron and get a dry kit and burn your new motor up.

    Get a Direct port Nitrous kit with all the saftey features (window switch, fuel pressure safety switch, nitrous filter before solenoids, WOT switch)
    OR get the TNT wet kit, I have heard that is pretty good and with all the saftey sh!t, you shouldnt blow your intake off. But Direct port is definately the way to go.

    You do heads, cam, fuel system, and nitrous you WILL be in the 11s. Not 12s. If you want 12s out of the car, just put the spray on it. No heads, no cam, no fuel system. 120 shot, some suspension, a Mcleoud Clutch, a new driveshaft, a rear end girdle and some Nitto Tires. DONE.

    Again man, there is a million ways to do what you want to do. Cheapest, is make it a sleeper and invest in a great Direct Port Kit.

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    lol. ok.

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    well lets start off at the main part of the question, if i buy something thats got 100,000 +/- miles, on the fact LT1, would i be better off having that bored to something larger and rebuilt or buy a LS1 or so crate motor etc. this is going to be a process build where i do it as money comes, but the idea of a turbo or SC depending on costs etc, Im from Delaware, anyone know of good places for parts and even work such as motor work/swap, etc

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    me personally, i would a buy car year that did have the ls1.

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    Well, I probably would have to agree with Hi-Po, its going to be easier just to get a high mileage 98 camaro or firebird. Then you could have the thing all done up if you want.

    OR alternatively, you can go looking on ebay for LS1, LS1, LS6 crate engines.
    They are there, and really, not that expensive.
    Last year, I could have gotten a 6.0 liter LS1 style motor out of the chevy pickups. It had 0 miles on it and was selling for $1800! The only difference on those are the heads and the block is iron, not aluminum. If you were going to boost the hell out of it, either turbo or supercharger one day... you would want an iron block.

    Anyway, without getting carried away, go look on ebay for those crate engines. Hundreds of people buys those motors for project cars they never finish and are left with brand new motors.

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    it completely slipped my mind that the 98 had the ls1, is there a big weight difference between the ls1 vs lt1 f bodys (full car weight) where can i go to learn further on the differences on engine internals so i have somewhat of an idea on what im looking for. im getting married the beginning of july, then buying the car sometime soon after so im trying to get a game plan on my build up, so i DONT end up like the many who buy the parts and never gets finished lol

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    There is not much of a weight difference. Again, the LS1 has an aluminum block, whereas the LT1 is cast iron, that is a difference of about a couple hundred pounds. Aside from that there is very little differences.
    Now another thing I have noticed and have researched is that beleive it or not the camaros are lighter than the firebirds. And the manuals are lighter than the autos. I would not get the auto anyway.
    I weighed my car at the track and it was 3190lbs that was factory with books from school in it (back in the college days) and still with the jack and spare tire in the back! My friend has a TA and it weighed in at almost 3400! I cannot explain why.

    I would get an LS1 camaro. Find a 98 with decent mileage on it and save yourself the headaches. Engines differences? Do a google search, but what I can tell you is this: Blocks are different, heads are different, Cam is more aggresive in the LS1. The LT1 has the MOST aweful ignition setup known to man and has constant problems (opti spark.. yes a stupid name). The LS1 has coil packs, one for each cylinder, this is the best way to go and you will never have to use anything else. The intake manifolds are different and so are the throttle bodies. The intake on an LT1 looks like a RAM Jet setup or something, the LS1 has smooth round runners that cross over, a damn good intake. I am not too sure on the LT1 pistons, but the LS1 pistons are not cast and not forged, they are in between called hypereutectic pistons.
    They last longer and survive more punishment than cast. That is why you can run upto 600HP on a stock LS1 bottom end. I cannot say the same about the LT1. The LT1 has 4 bolt mains, which was considered awesome back in the 60s, the LS1 has 6 bolt mains, which is BETTER.

    Get the LS1, you will be so happy with the amount of power you get out if it after just doing "free mods", a filter and a muffler. I ran a 12.9 stock like this.
    Do some midlength headers, suspension, a tire, a great clutch, a driveshaft, and a rear end girdle, and you will be in the mid 12s. Ad the nitrous setup and you are in the 11.6-11.8 range depending on how good a driver/drag racer you are. Get a 98 camaro and once you do, if you have any questions, you can e-mail me. I have had my car for 6 years and I already have done all the research. If you need it, I would not mind. I check my e-mails every morning anyway. Congrats on the wedding and enjoy getting the car!

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    if your really on a budget and your not driving the car everyday "i mean only on the street maybe on saturday night to race", get an older model to save money, rebuild the motor " stroke it out" 383, 408, hell make it as big as you want and build with a forged bottom end. get some aluminum heads built, run a high compression "run 110 octane gas or better",and put spray on it. low ass gears and a th350 or th400 tranny w/ a big stall. get an ingnition system, rear suspension and tires and roll cage. Wow you got a track only car, cheap using ancient technonlogy lol. If that is not what you are looking to do then do exactly as black said. I know i learned the heard way.

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    ok thanks im looking to do the car for street/strip, but possibly driving to events etc... to increase performance what should i start with and whats the price range on stroking the motor etc im in delaware and i have no clue where to go for misc questions or work,

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    I couldnt tell you where to go in delaware, but what I can tell you is there are PLENTY of great shops across the nation that you can send it out to.
    If you are going to do a stroker package (LT1 or LS1?) you can easily find the parts on the net. If you dont have anyone reputable local for this kind of work, my suggestion is to use a reputable one from out of state and pay for the shipping. If you are having a stroker built, you are pretty much replacing everything on the bottom end, plus having the block at the very least baked and honed. I would probably find out what they are charging for cores and then decide if its even worth shipping your block back and forth. Not to mention you will have to disassemble your motor completely to get it to them.

    I am pretty sure a core on an LT1 is cheap and on an LS1 is probably around 500 bucks.

    You have many options for your rotating assembly.

    http://www.motorsporttech.com/fbody_engine02.asp

    These guys are great for LS1 style motors, as long as you are spending the money, again why get the LT1???

    Another great name local to myself is this:

    http://www.borowskirace.com/engines.html#stroker

    They do LS1 and LT1 stuff and are HUGE. ALL the local performance shops send their stuff to these guys to get done. All machine work, all motors, everything. Again, you would have to pay for shipping.

    You have millions of options, but if you are doing a stroker kit get ready to spend THOUSANDS! (just the parts are going to be over $4K easy)

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    I had a 96 WS6 w/ an LT4 hot cam kit and my 02 with just bolt ons is pushing more horse. Trust me, buy the LS1. Your best bet would be to look for a 98 camaro z28 or Trans Am that has been clipped but with no frame damage. Replace the fenders or whatever and start your buildup there. With a just one turbo Ive seen various T/A's that have 700plus rwhp. My dad has an 02 T/A with a twin turbo LS1 built by Texas Rear Turbo in Arlington Texas that has been set up to run two different programs. One, at 800 rwhp and the other at 1,000, depending on track conditions. And that was going very conservative on the tuning. 1,200 is very possible to produce, it would just be difficult to trasfer to the ground as we have found out at 1,000 and often even at 800.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notsomellow
    I had a 96 WS6 w/ an LT4 hot cam kit and my 02 with just bolt ons is pushing more horse. Trust me, buy the LS1. Your best bet would be to look for a 98 camaro z28 or Trans Am that has been clipped but with no frame damage. Replace the fenders or whatever and start your buildup there. With a just one turbo Ive seen various T/A's that have 700plus rwhp. My dad has an 02 T/A with a twin turbo LS1 built by Texas Rear Turbo in Arlington Texas that has been set up to run two different programs. One, at 800 rwhp and the other at 1,000, depending on track conditions. And that was going very conservative on the tuning. 1,200 is very possible to produce, it would just be difficult to trasfer to the ground as we have found out at 1,000 and often even at 800.

    YES YES YES!!! FINALLY SOMEBODY ELSE WHO SEES THE LIGHT!

    These are not B.S. numbers or anything unrealistic. My suggestion is to just go get a damn LS series engine from one of the major guys and go from there. They are all forged and ready for SERIOUS HP. Decide right now whether you want your power to be streetable or strip only and decide right now whether you want a supercharger, Nitrous, Turbo, or all natural.
    All Natural with serious number is NOT streetable so keep that in mind.

    Do a google on MTI performance... look at their engines. Pick one. Have fun.

    You start with one of those motors you will already have 500HP out of the box, with the possibility of numbers that Notsomellow mentioned above. That is real man. F#$k the LT1... You want a fast LT1, you better get ready to dump a TON of money and get custom made sheet metal intakes and custom made EVERYTHING. Matter of fact, yesterday there was an article in one of the car mags on the FASTEST LT1... go look at a borders and find the article. If you saw what this guy had to do to get what people with LS1s do all the time, you would SH!T yourself.

    Go LS brother...

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