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LS1 and the SBF

This is a discussion on LS1 and the SBF within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Ok so i need to bring this up. My teacher in college is trying to tell me that GM's LS1 ...

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    Member My00Z28's Avatar
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    Exclamation LS1 and the SBF

    Ok so i need to bring this up. My teacher in college is trying to tell me that GM's LS1 heads were copies of Fords Cylinder heads... the only thing they can say is that the LS1 Heads bolt up to a SBF... so i got pretty heated about this but then i took a deep breath and said this right before i walked out of the room, even if GM did copy Ford they made it better with the LS6!

    I really would like to hear everyones opinions on this because i want to prove his Dumb A** wrong when i go back to class Monday and just punch him in the face with all the information i can hit him with....

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    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Move aside. Let an old man in here.
    I think your teacher is getting all this from the early TransAm racing days. Ford was kicking everybody's ass with their Boss 302. Chevy took their 283 crank and put it in a 327 and came up with their own 302 (Look up old TransAm build rules etc.)....
    From these early racing motors were the first small journal blocks/crank/head combos that evolved into the LSX engine series.

    Many Ford loyalist point out the head bolt patterns were the same so assumed/criticized GM for "copying" the Ford head design from their 302 Boss. Problem with saying that is Ford used a clevo style valve design and GM used a splayed valve design. Totally different heads. Robert Yates also helped in the design of the GM heads. This also helped the myth.

    I hear that same bullshit from time to time and that is where that comes from.

    I bet your teacher uses Royal Purple also as he obviously just regurgitates anything he hears without doing his own research.

    You can put LSX heads on damn near any Ford modern engine with some shade tree machinist capability. So what?
    Last edited by Sarge; 03-04-2011 at 02:44 PM.

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    Member My00Z28's Avatar
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    He is one of my teachers for my automotive high performance associates degree. Really WTF! I still held my ground on all of his crap. thanks for the info if any one else wants to chime in would really like to hear this BS debated!

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I've always compared the LS heads as looking more like Big Block Chevy heads without the canted valves.
    Ever notice the I/E layout?? I/E I/E I/E I/E Just like a BBC.

    The original Gen 1 small block was E/I I/E E/I I/E

    I have a BB chevelle and when I first layed eyes on the new LS platform,,,that's the very first thing I noticed. I told my dad,,,"hey these engines have an exhaust layout just like a bbc"
    The only difference was the strange looking cathedral ports. When GM went to the larger square intake port heads, (aka L92, LS7),,,that pretty much sealed the deal for me,,,,that's straight from the good ole' square port BBC heads,,,,again
    Tell your teacher that, and then mention the first generation BBC started in 63 as the mystery motor, then hit production cars in 65. What did Ford have then,,,hmmm??? Back then Ford was still playing with 427 side oilers. The cleveland canted valve heads didn't hit the market till 69.

    The only thing similar to ford that I see is the bolt pattern. GM went to 4 bolts per cylinder instead of the original gen 1 sbc of 5 bolts per cylinder. I don't see how that makes it more like a ford head though

    The only head that ford made that resembles it would be the canted valve cleveland heads that Sarge mentioned. They were first used on the Boss 302's and then 351 cleveland 4 barrels. But those heads have been out of production since about 73ish. Even the remakes that Edelbrock sells aren't even close to the old Cleveland heads, the intake ports are literally half the size.
    GM made large port canted valve heads as well back in 69 for the sbc 302's. Intended for the Trans Am series that Sarge also touched on. They never made production though. There are a few floating around. Again,,,they basically look like a BBC head on a gen 1 small block.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 03-04-2011 at 07:00 PM.

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    good info guys if there is anything else anyone can mention other than what was mentioned that would be great going to bring it up with my stupid teacher again tomorrow!

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Probably doesn't matter, this stuff falls on deaf ears to those that are die hard blue ovals, or any other brand loyalty for that matter. You run into people from time to time like that. It's not that I don't like ford, they did some great things if you know your heritage. I have chevys, pontiacs and a ford sitting in the garage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I've always compared the LS heads as looking more like Big Block Chevy heads without the canted valves.
    Ever notice the I/E layout?? I/E I/E I/E I/E Just like a BBC.

    The original Gen 1 small block was E/I I/E E/I I/E

    I have a BB chevelle and when I first layed eyes on the new LS platform,,,that's the very first thing I noticed. I told my dad,,,"hey these engines have an exhaust layout just like a bbc"
    The only difference was the strange looking cathedral ports. When GM went to the larger square intake port heads, (aka L92, LS7),,,that pretty much sealed the deal for me,,,,that's straight from the good ole' square port BBC heads,,,,again
    Tell your teacher that, and then mention the first generation BBC started in 63 as the mystery motor, then hit production cars in 65. What did Ford have then,,,hmmm??? Back then Ford was still playing with 427 side oilers. The cleveland canted valve heads didn't hit the market till 69.

    The only thing similar to ford that I see is the bolt pattern. GM went to 4 bolts per cylinder instead of the original gen 1 sbc of 5 bolts per cylinder. I don't see how that makes it more like a ford head though

    The only head that ford made that resembles it would be the canted valve cleveland heads that Sarge mentioned. They were first used on the Boss 302's and then 351 cleveland 4 barrels. But those heads have been out of production since about 73ish. Even the remakes that Edelbrock sells aren't even close to the old Cleveland heads, the intake ports are literally half the size.
    GM made large port canted valve heads as well back in 69 for the sbc 302's. Intended for the Trans Am series that Sarge also touched on. They never made production though. There are a few floating around. Again,,,they basically look like a BBC head on a gen 1 small block.
    Too Bad your eyes are not something i would call fact. Looks like to me what you posted is just what it looks like nothing. P.S I don't care who made what but i found this post nuts.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance1 View Post
    Too Bad your eyes are not something i would call fact. Looks like to me what you posted is just what it looks like nothing. P.S I don't care who made what but i found this post nuts.
    you do realized your posting in a 6 yr old thread....

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