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is an ls1 a good starting platform?

This is a discussion on is an ls1 a good starting platform? within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by 0rion you old farts and your carburetors. I think if you get past the electronics side of ...

  1. #21
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    you old farts and your carburetors.
    I think if you get past the electronics side of the engine it would be tough to beat the LS1 pound for pound. The gen 1's have been around 50 years so that's a pretty big head start. Look at what the LSx engines have done in 10. Think what they'll be doing 10 more from now. The lsx block is light, 6 bolt mains, and a pretty rock solid bottom end. The LS1 heads are light years ahead of the gen 1's right out of the box stock for stock. I'm by far not a engine historian and I sure don't have the experience with gen 1 engines like some of you guys do so this is 100% opinion. I just think the lsx is probably the best small block ever invented once you get past the electrical side of it. I see in the future that the plug and play transplants will come a long way and you'll see a bunch of lsx engines being dropped into stuff.
    The gen 1's have their history and it's a good one. I just think they've had 50 years to iron out all of the stuff the lsx is going through now but once you get them in place I think the lsx has the advantage. How many gen 1's are out there making big HP and then driving the car home with the a/c on? Not that there aren't but it's easier to do on a fuel injected car. Just my 2 cents.

    Okay ya got me,,,,,,,I still like my carburators

  2. #22
    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    No biggy, I just wanted to throw out a different point of view, something to ponder.
    I like the LS motors, with 15 and even 12 degree cylinder heads the power potential is awsome. That is there entire advantage right there.
    Hard to compare it to other platforms that have to battle with 23 degree heads. You can use 18 degree heads on the gen 1 but it ups the cost quite a bit with valvetrain pieces and intake.

    So the HP battle would be a tough discussion, sooooo many variables. Cost also varies since some people have different resources changing the cost of things considerably.

    With that said, I took a different approach with a slight twist to the original question. As far as platforms,,,,well it didn't say you had to start with a 4th gen that already had the LS1 installed,,,,,,right???

    When I read that question the first thing that popped into my head is a hotrodder that has (for instance) a Nova or chevelle,,,,and was looking for a drivetrain to build. The choices in "Platforms" are practically endless.

    The LS1 may not be the most cost effective in this case, since swapping parts is difficult, not everything crosses over from one year to the next, different reluctor rings on the cranks were changed in 04-05 so computers are different, wiring harnesses are vary different. Timing covers changed, sensors were moved around etc.....
    The new L92 heads are a popular choice now, but don't fit the small bore LS1, intakes are different here as well. You have to have an LS specific transmission bell housing since the bolt pattern changed, torque converters, flywheels etc.... It's these things and more that makes them difficult to start from scratch, you really have to do your homework and in the end you spend quite a bit of money$$$$
    Finding a wrecked Fbody would be a good alternative. But finding wrecked cars aren't easy yet. Not many in the bone yards to pick from, still too young. These engines, cars etc.....need to be around a few more years, more and more people will start to get comfortable with them.

    Thats the kind of things my twisted mind was thinking
    problem with finding a wrecked F-bod or vette is that they get parted out by the insurance company or sold to a place that will get it back on the road or sell the parts them selves... i have yet to see a formula, T/A, firehawk, Z28, SS or a LSX vette in a junk yard with in 50 air miles of me... and that is a fucking HUGE area...

  3. #23
    O U 8 1 2 Spaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Okay ya got me,,,,,,,I still like my carburators
    i used to sweear by carbs and hate the thought of ever owning a fuel injected car... now that i have a fuel injected car... i'd never go back to a carb...

    it's like going from a solid lifter to a hydraulic lifter... NO MORE VALVE ADJUSTMENT!!!

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    Member Orange99z28's Avatar
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    i wanna say ls1 but i think i'm gonna have to go with lt1. i mean ls1's are obviously better, but for half the price you can make equal hp in a lt1. just look up the $$ diff. for heads between the 2 platforms. now in 5 years ls1 prices should come down (please please please) making it the best per $. but by then i'm sure they'll make some newer better engine..so it goes

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    Old Farts with carb-bu-ra-tors? He he he, it's even worse than that. How about.....break-or points? Or gen-er-ra-tors? Or...or...tire tube patch kits? Or...tire irons? (duh..what are those?) Or....manual tire pumps? Bakelite? Or...or....anyway, you get the idea? OLD COOTS FOREVER!!!

  6. #26
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HB of CJ View Post
    Old Farts with carb-bu-ra-tors? He he he, it's even worse than that. How about.....break-or points? Or gen-er-ra-tors? Or...or...tire tube patch kits? Or...tire irons? (duh..what are those?) Or....manual tire pumps? Bakelite? Or...or....anyway, you get the idea? OLD COOTS FOREVER!!!
    Yep, I still run points in the Firebird. No reason to change, they have worked flawless for me for years, accross country and all several times.

    Nothing wrong with cheap and easy roadside repairs either if the unfortunate should ever happen.

  7. #27
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    i used to sweear by carbs and hate the thought of ever owning a fuel injected car... now that i have a fuel injected car... i'd never go back to a carb...

    it's like going from a solid lifter to a hydraulic lifter... NO MORE VALVE ADJUSTMENT!!!
    I have both carbed cars and fuel injected cars now. I have to say I still favor carbs though.
    It's hard to beat "cheap and easy" to maintain. And they make the same or more power side by side.

    Fuel injection isn't as platform friendly when you get into swapping motors into vintage iron either. And switching an LS1 over to carburator isn't cheap at all.

    Just for the stand alone ignition setup from MSD with the box and coils is $1400, comes with the intake but it's $500 for a good carburator. So here we are $2,000 in the hole and haven't finished the entire long block yet Thats not exactly friendly.
    Fuel injection isn't any cheaper, if you step up to a Fast 90/90 setup it's also $1500, and if you want to tune on the FI setup you have to shell out at least another $500 for a decent software package.

    Getting into head and camshaft packages will set you back another $2500, and rotating assemblies aren't cheap for these engines either thanks to the reluctor wheel on the crankshaft.

    These are more reasons why I don't see the LS series motors as friendly or decent platforms just yet.

    With these prices it's just not cost effective yet. This engine series needs more time in the field so prices start coming down before they become a viable and cost effective platform.

    It's these reasons above that the original GEN 1 is still the most popular. You can still make enough power with them to satisfy 99% of people with street cars and not break the bank.

    Right now as prices are,,,,,building a Big Block Chevy is about the same as building an LS1 from scratch, neither are cheap.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Yeah I know about points. Easy roadside repairs when it happens, not if it happens! Had a state trooper help me one night, roadside on the highway, in my '67 400 4-speed Firebird. I never want points again. Or carburetors. OR FOUR WHEEL DRUM BRAKES!!!!!!

  9. #29
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Yeah I know about points. Easy roadside repairs when it happens, not if it happens! Had a state trooper help me one night, roadside on the highway, in my '67 400 4-speed Firebird. I never want points again. Or carburetors. OR FOUR WHEEL DRUM BRAKES!!!!!!
    Oh common,,,,I still have 4 wheel drums on the nomad

    I'm honest when I say I have never in 30 something years had a set of points let me down. I have though, had electronic ignition leave me stranded a time or two.

    Generally if a car is having points issues, something else is the cause, and most of the time it's just a worn distributor, not the points fault. Ya have to keep that rubbing block lubed, (just general maintainance) and also the distributor shaft bushings could be worn causing irratic points movement, which is usually due to lack of regular oil changes. All can be refurbished though.

    I throw a dwell meter on the bird once every spring, make sure it's set and I don't have to touch it the rest of the year. About every 3-4 years I put a new set in. Not a big deal really.

    Shucks I trust this car to haul the family accross country more than any other car we have, simply because everything is still so simple on it, easy to diagnose and repair
    If I had my choice of getting stuck in the middle of the desert between my 70 firebird or the 02 camaro,,,,I would pick the firebird hands down everytime. Simply because the chances are very good that I can get it running on the roadside in a matter of minutes, where as the 02 camaro you may as well call a hook.

    Ooooops sorry, this is starting to stray a little off track,,,lol
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 03-14-2008 at 05:41 PM.

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