View Poll Results: What Oil Do You Use

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  • Synthetic

    424 87.06%
  • Dino

    40 8.21%
  • Blended dino/synthetic off the shelf

    17 3.49%
  • I mix my own

    6 1.23%
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I'm a Oil Junkie

This is a discussion on I'm a Oil Junkie within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; hey sarge, just wondering, i know you have said good stuff about rotella t 15w40 before. do you happen to ...

  1. #741
    old timer blue02Z's Avatar
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    hey sarge, just wondering, i know you have said good stuff about rotella t 15w40 before. do you happen to know if its wet clutch compatable? thinking about putting in my 4wheeler cuz i get it for free at work

  2. #742
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with
    Triple Protection 15W-40 (CJ-4), and Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.
    Both oils passed this wet clutch friction test, and can be used in
    motorcycles that have a combination oil sump for the engine,
    transmission and wet clutch.

  3. #743

    Post Moly

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Mebbe we need to head to head Shaeffers-Amsoil in our oil shootout. Lemme speak with the Shaeffers people. Shaeffers doesn't utilize "Moly Add Packs" as we knew them back in the day. The patent is really good reading!
    Look at Pennzoil/Delo and many others today and their success with Moly in today's SM rated oils. Most blenders have overcome the issues associated with Moly remaining in suspension years ago. Including Amsoil who themselves use Moly in their top of the line ASL 5-30 oil.
    VOA of Amsoil ASL 5-30
    260ppm of Boron
    56ppm of Moly
    3,000ppm of Ca
    <700ppm of P
    http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...949#Post873949
    It does appear that the 5W-30 ASL has a kick of moly in it.

    It’s been said that Moly additives along with other metal additives are used to help “beef up” middle of the road base stock formulations.

    As stated: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=94664&Number=1406 338#Post1406338

    This makes since as Amsoil 0W-20 (ASM), 0W-30 (SSO) and 5W-20 (RD20) don’t have a spot of Moly. Those formulations are more costly and are undoubtedly formulated with more Esters, hence the added price tag.

    Just boils down to the target application and what you’re trying to accomplish.

    You’re right. It would be interesting to see how this equates in real world driving conditions.

    Hum, never have seen a Shaeffers product used in an Amsoil Four-Ball Wear Test comparison. Maybe I’ll end up eating my words, LOL.



    CompSyn

  4. #744
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    The 4 ball wear test is meaningless as a Timken Machine as it in no way reflects an internal combustion engine innards. But I know you Amsoil boys love that thing
    I just shared the VOA with you as you had said you didn't trust any oil with Moly in it and Amsoil utilizes Moly.
    Molacule has no credibility with me and many others. He really stretches with some of his statements and "theories" sometimes.
    I agree something fierce with you about utilizing Esters versus Moly etc. as Amsoil/Pennzoil Platinum have proven that theory works. But the Moly compounds of today do not resemble those of yesteryear.
    Last edited by Sarge; 04-29-2009 at 12:53 PM.

  5. #745

    Wink One-Armed Bandit

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    The 4 ball wear test is meaningless as a Timken Machine as it in no way reflects an internal combustion engine innards. But I know you Amsoil boys love that thing
    I just shared the VOA with you as you had said you didn't trust any oil with Moly in it and Amsoil utilizes Moly.
    Molacule has no credibility with me and many others. He really stretches with some of his statements and "theories" sometimes.
    I agree something fierce with you about utilizing Esters versus Moly etc. as Amsoil/Pennzoil Platinum have proven that theory works. But the Moly compounds of today do not resemble those of yesteryear.
    Now common Sarge. I’d agree that the relationship between modern day engines and the Four-Ball Wear Test is a bit debatable. However it may not be that far of a stretch when considering the extreme metal-to-metal contact loads of older flat tappet cam shafts. But equating the Four-Ball Wear Test, an ASTM approved testing method to the Timken bearing tester… AKA the “One-Armed Bandit”… Not that comparable.

    As far a moly is concerned, I’m aware of how in the days of old when formulators first tried to use Molybdenum Disulfide, it had some issues. Today they use an organic moly compound that has proven itself very well… Well enough for even Amsoil to use a pinch here and there.

    I guess saying I was leery of moly could be construed as I don’t trust it. But then again not trusting moly is kind of strong phrase knowing the advancements it has made in the motor oil formulations of today.

    Guess a better way of saying it is it’s my preference to use high Ester formulations.

    CompSyn

  6. #746
    old timer blue02Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    We recently ran the JASO MA friction test on Rotella T with
    Triple Protection 15W-40 (CJ-4), and Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 CJ-4.
    Both oils passed this wet clutch friction test, and can be used in
    motorcycles that have a combination oil sump for the engine,
    transmission and wet clutch.


    o great!!! i figured so cuz i think i used it in my crf450 dirtbike with 0 problems. thank you.

    one more dumb question:

    how does schaeffers atf and gear lube perform???

  7. #747
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue02Z View Post
    o great!!! i figured so cuz i think i used it in my crf450 dirtbike with 0 problems. thank you.

    one more dumb question:

    how does schaeffers atf and gear lube perform???
    Shaeffers entire line is top shelf and all products perform top shelf. Use it with confidence.

  8. #748
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CompSyn View Post
    Now common Sarge. I’d agree that the relationship between modern day engines and the Four-Ball Wear Test is a bit debatable. However it may not be that far of a stretch when considering the extreme metal-to-metal contact loads of older flat tappet cam shafts. But equating the Four-Ball Wear Test, an ASTM approved testing method to the Timken bearing tester… AKA the “One-Armed Bandit”… Not that comparable.

    As far a moly is concerned, I’m aware of how in the days of old when formulators first tried to use Molybdenum Disulfide, it had some issues. Today they use an organic moly compound that has proven itself very well… Well enough for even Amsoil to use a pinch here and there.

    I guess saying I was leery of moly could be construed as I don’t trust it. But then again not trusting moly is kind of strong phrase knowing the advancements it has made in the motor oil formulations of today.

    Guess a better way of saying it is it’s my preference to use high Ester formulations.

    CompSyn
    LOL...yeah GM developed the 4ball wear test long long time ago to check backwards compatibility of motor oils on their old lifter/cam setups. Of course that is no longer applicable. So the 4ball wear test is mainly used (by very few) to test grease as testing motor oil with it has become obsolete as it does not reflect the real world internal combustion engine as we know it today. I saw Southwest Research here in San Antonio pour Coca Cola in and Coke outperformed the motor oil and produced the best results of any of the oils. Bleach did equally well. I aint pouring Coke nor bleach into my sump! Anything with PTFE (Teflon) like Tufoil will produce almost no wear in the 4ball test. Slick 50 etc. Sorry but in the real world you or I neither one are going to use Slick50 in our sumps even though it (PTFE) produces the best numbers in the 4ball test machine.
    Seriously anything with chlorinated parriffins reflects abosultely no wear. And you and I know we aint puttting anything in with chlorinated parrifins are we
    Bottom line concerning the 4ball test is simple to me. You can put a small amount of certain very cheap additives in to ace the test if the manufacturer bases his/her marketing claims on the old test. But these additives in the real world break down very quickly and you are right back with the rest of the pack of synthetic motor oils for the OCI.
    This is why I depend on UOA's reflecting real world metal wear versus a old test that clearly does not really give me any real world definitive data to project actual wear in my engine. So to summerize I am not going to base any lube decesion on a test that does not reflect the real world environmenrt nor provides any real data for my lube performance expectations.
    With all that said.....Amsoil is top notch stuff and delivers outstanding real world results. I just wish they would get away from marketing material based on the 4ball test "results".

  9. #749
    old timer blue02Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Shaeffers entire line is top shelf and all products perform top shelf. Use it with confidence.
    your the best

  10. #750
    Member RedSmokey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    Shaeffers entire line is top shelf and all products perform top shelf. Use it with confidence.
    I just ordered 2 cases of series 7000 10-30. I might have to call back for some ATF, i think when i do my oil change im going to drain and fill my t-56 too. Do you use any additives or just fill it to the top with regular Dexron III?

  11. #751
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsmokey View Post
    i just ordered 2 cases of series 7000 10-30. I might have to call back for some atf, i think when i do my oil change im going to drain and fill my t-56 too. Do you use any additives or just fill it to the top with regular dexron iii?
    no additives

  12. #752
    TJEA Retirement Home Dr.Crash's Avatar
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    see thats what i thought its dex III. this stupid lady at the local auto parts store tried to tell me it was this dex/merc crap

  13. #753
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    Last edited by Sarge; 04-30-2009 at 07:56 AM.

  14. #754
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    And is compatible (better it looks like) with Dex III required systems? Like you can use DOT 4 brake fluid in the DOT 3 systems. Im guessing yes since thats what your saying we should use Thanks for all the help again sarge, just want to make sure im gettin the good stuff in here and doing it right. If your ever back out this way in CA ill buy you some In n Out and some rounds
    Last edited by RedSmokey; 04-30-2009 at 08:12 AM.

  15. #755
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSmokey View Post
    And is compatible (better it looks like) with Dex III required systems? Like you can use DOT 4 brake fluid in the DOT 3 systems. Im guessing yes since thats what your saying we should use Thanks for all the help again sarge, just want to make sure im gettin the good stuff in here and doing it right. If your ever back out this way in CA ill buy you some In n Out and some rounds
    Yup it is DexIII compatible no issues there. I'll take you up on your offer.

  16. #756

    Post UOAs

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    LOL...yeah GM developed the 4ball wear test long long time ago to check backwards compatibility of motor oils on their old lifter/cam setups. Of course that is no longer applicable. So the 4ball wear test is mainly used (by very few) to test grease as testing motor oil with it has become obsolete as it does not reflect the real world internal combustion engine as we know it today. I saw Southwest Research here in San Antonio pour Coca Cola in and Coke outperformed the motor oil and produced the best results of any of the oils. Bleach did equally well. I aint pouring Coke nor bleach into my sump! Anything with PTFE (Teflon) like Tufoil will produce almost no wear in the 4ball test. Slick 50 etc. Sorry but in the real world you or I neither one are going to use Slick50 in our sumps even though it (PTFE) produces the best numbers in the 4ball test machine.
    Seriously anything with chlorinated parriffins reflects abosultely no wear. And you and I know we aint puttting anything in with chlorinated parrifins are we
    Bottom line concerning the 4ball test is simple to me. You can put a small amount of certain very cheap additives in to ace the test if the manufacturer bases his/her marketing claims on the old test. But these additives in the real world break down very quickly and you are right back with the rest of the pack of synthetic motor oils for the OCI.
    This is why I depend on UOA's reflecting real world metal wear versus a old test that clearly does not really give me any real world definitive data to project actual wear in my engine. So to summerize I am not going to base any lube decesion on a test that does not reflect the real world environmenrt nor provides any real data for my lube performance expectations.
    With all that said.....Amsoil is top notch stuff and delivers outstanding real world results. I just wish they would get away from marketing material based on the 4ball test "results".
    Seems like we got a bit off track to the original question. So let’s try and revert back to the question.

    You’ve said many times in this forum something to the effect of “Shaeffers just hands all other oils their proverbial heads.” Now going back in time a bit to circa 2005 when you started the now famed “I’m a Oil Junky” thread, you posted that you used Amsoil 0W-30. Well back in 2005 the Amsoil 0W-30 was the (TSO) formula which has since been replaced with the “upgraded” Amsoil Signature Series Oil 0W-30 (SSO). As many of us know, most oil companies routinely make change to their motor oil formulations; sometimes for the better, sometimes not. The Amsoil SSO is better then the TSO it replaces. So we all know how you are always testing, testing, testing and since 2005 you’ve tested some other oils and have since found that “Schaeffers Series 7000 10-30 gives you the absolute best results.” Sure! Schaeffers is a very good product, and I have no doubts that what you are saying is true. I’d just like to know compared to what? Schaeffers Series 7000 10-30 gives you the best results compared to what? Let’s see the UOAs.

    I’d also like comment a bit more in the Four-Ball Wear Test.

    Most big oil companies provide consumers with Product Data Sheets. On these data sheets we see information like:

    Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
    Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D445)
    Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270)
    Noack Volatility (ASTM D5800)
    Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D92)

    Some companies conveniently omit some of this information while other companies provide added information. Amsoil adds the Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D4172) to it’s product data sheets for their customers who for example may have an older Muscle Car like myself who might be interested to see that data. Does it mean anything to someone with a modern LS1 powered vehicle; maybe not because they are using rollorized valvetrain components that don’t have the same metal-to-metal contact loads.

    The purpose of the hand held Timken bearing tester Technical Service bulletin was to show that that tester is not an ASTM approved test procedure while the Four-Ball Wear Test is, and also to show that aftermarket motor oil additives are not regulated in the same way that motor oil is. So if a motor oil manufacture posts data in their Product Data Sheets with respect to lets say High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity (ASTM D4683), there’s a certain accountability they are held to for making sure the numbers they post are factual and true. How do we as consumers know if a company is making up numbers for big marketing ploys? Well aside from industry regulation, we have seen in recent months that the oil industry is self regulating of sorts. For example, different oil manufactures test other oil brands in their own in house Research and Development facilities and then report that data in the event something might be off. We’ve seen this when Valvoline made the claim that Mobil 1’s 5W-30 formula did not pass the IVA test sequence that is required for the API SM licensing classification. As of today Mobil 1 has not directly addressed this claim and some long time users of Mobil 1 are discontinuing the use of Mobil 1 products.

    In addition, we also recently saw Castrol take Royal Purple to the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus where Royal Purple voluntarily agreed to discontinue some of their advertising claims which the NAD said was unfounded.

    So what’s the point? The point is, if an oil company really tried to deceive consumers and purposefully botch data found on their published Product Data Sheets, the word would get out, and that company would then have major credibility issues. Amsoil, Inc. does not botch its Four-Ball Wear Test numbers to in any way deceive its customers.

    There are also some companies that raise the bar and voluntarily apply for and receive ISO 9001:2000 accreditation. What does it mean? For companies that hold and maintain the ISO accreditation, those companies are routinely audited by the International Organization for Standardization. The ISO auditors look at the quality control mechanisms set in place by the company and make sure that the finished goods the company produces is consistent and every bit as advertised.

    Amsoil, Inc., of course holds and maintains ISO 9001:2000 accreditation. Off hand Shaeffers and Brad Penn are other oil companies that hold ISO 9001:2000 accreditation as well.

    So at the end of the day what does it mean to the average consumer if they can go to an oil manufacturer’s website, find the Product Data sheets, download the pdf files and see what the Viscosity Index (ASTM D2270) value is of a particular motor oil? Maybe something to some, maybe not much to others.

    What DOES mean something to the consumer is how well that oil is going to perform in their specific engine, with their specific driving habits. The Used Oil Analysis (UOA) is what ultimately is going to tell them this. The availability of the UOA to general consumers is what ultimately keeps oil companies accountable and gives consumers a very nice tool for determining what oil works best for them.

    UOAs… Post’em up!

    CompSyn

  17. #757
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    My UOA's been posted up forever. In this thread and in the GTO section
    But I'll drag em up for you and save your eyeballs!
    As I said clearly and will say again. And I reiterate I am not bashing...I am saying the 4ball wear test doesn't mean anything to me. UOA's mean something to me. Didn't ever say Amsoil was fudging numbers, deceiving anybody or anything like that. Why so touchy? I said I don't have any faith in the 4ball wear test.
    Lemme go look em up for you. The UOA's that is.

  18. #758
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    Well I just put in an order for absolutely everything Amsoil for my 35th 2002 SS. They even had shipping to Quebec from Ontario which avoids me all possible U.S. paperwork fees or duty fees! I also registered for a preferred customer account which saved me quite a bit. Thanks a lot Anthony for all the help, I also referenced your ZO# for the order.
    Last edited by 35thAnniversaryPhil; 05-13-2009 at 07:20 AM.

  19. #759
    Grand Imperial Wizard Sarge's Avatar
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    OK here we go....
    Amsoil 0-30 from about 48 months ago....I'll do these in screen shots in (two parts) so folks dont have to squint Big ass copper oil cooler so don't get caught up in the copper numbers.

    Last edited by Sarge; 04-30-2009 at 06:29 PM.

  20. #760
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    Shell Rotella as the next UOA from Amsoil 0-30 was about the same...


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