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I need HELP. My car won't start

This is a discussion on I need HELP. My car won't start within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Any update on this, Charles?...

  1. #101
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    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    Any update on this, Charles?

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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    No. Work, kids (soccer season), and a new rent house have been keeping me busy. I got some other projects knocked out this weekend. If nothing else comes up the Camaro will be the next project. But I know I can't work on it tonight. My girl has a game and the older boys have pratice. We'll see, maybe Tuesday evening. Boys normally pratice on Tuesday but since they are praticing on Monday maybe it will be cancelled. If not Tuesday I know I can't any of the rest of the week. And my wife works this weekend. I'll see what me and the kids, including my 14 month old can get done. We can work on it, but it is very slooooow when he is helping.

  3. #103
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    I hear you. Before kids I used to get a ton more stuff done in a day it seemed.

  4. #104
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    I pulled the ign relay and with the key in the "on" postition I checked the voltage at the OBD port. I had 11.5 on the chassis ground and 8.5 on the signal ground. But that is still close enough that the fuel pump would prime. Pulled the 6 fuses that the relay feeds and put the relay back in. Checked it again and same as with the relay out. Put the fuses in one-by-one checking after each one and I got the same results. Until I got to the eng sensor fuse. Then the fuel pump wouldn't prime and the voltage across the hot and the signal ground was 2.? volts. Across the chassis ground and the hot was still 11.5. so something the eng sensor fuse gives power to is causing a short.

    So I'm back here #91 I've unplugged all the sensors listed in my Haynes book. I'm guessing either there are more sensors not listed in my book, the short is in the PCM, or the short is in the wiring to the sensors (and I have no clue where).

    Jeff, Is there an action chart for the Electronic Ign System? Say like page 6-1660?

  5. #105
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    Let me go take a look.

  6. #106
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    Charles - looking back at this post:

    I thought I had it fixed, but still no start. I had someone hold the volt meter on while I checked and wiggled wires. Numbers started jumping all over the place by the starter. Found 3 wires that have been cut/broken. I don't think I broke them. But I might have when pulling the manifold out. One of them is yellow w/ a black stripe. Black stripe means ground most of the time so I touched to a ground. When I did the fuel pump kicked in and I had no more short/bad ground. So I grounded the wire and tried to start it. Still won't start.


    Where were the broken wires located? A yellow/black wire by the starter probably goes to the crankshaft position sensor. If you grounded this, it means that the PCM probably doesn't know where the engine is at from a rotation perspective. The sensor is located at the back of the block, above the starter. You can see the sensor plug in this pic, just above the swivel socket:


  7. #107
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    I think it was the CPS see #87 and #89

    Jeff, you got mt to thinking. I grounded the yellow w/black stripe wire and the short went away (from the PCM to Ground). I can understand it still not starting since the CPS was not hooked up. I wonder if I ground the wire while the CPS is hooked up if it will start, cause more damage, or what will happen???

    Where is the PCM grounded?? When I put the eng sensor fuse in is when I get the "short". So I've assumed that something it powers is putting voltage in the signal ground. Could it be something it powers is not ground well and that is causing it to look like a "short"??

    Can anyone tell me where each one of these is grounded "According to my Haynes book the eng sensor fuse powers the O2 sensors, stop lamp switch, Reverse inhibit solenoid, skip, shift solenoid, and the MAF"????? And where the stop lamp switch is located? Is it on the pedal?

  8. #108
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    I have read this entire thread, and it seems like the two most complex items are the PCM, and the (barely mentioned) BCM. Is there any way you can get a buddy to borrow you their PCM, and BCM so you can swap them out and give them a try? I think Jeff may be onto something with the CPS not knowing the position, but, honestly, I thought Jeff was onto something almost a half dozen times. It just seems smartest to test the two most complex items. PCM and BCM.

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    I would like a pic of the broken wires -- that may help on this end. Since you have "mystery voltage" let's start with the grounds under the hood and make sure thay are all in place and not corroded or anything. As best I can tell, these are all the grounds:

    1. Bolted to the driver side of the engine block, behind the alternator.

    2. Bolted to the back of the driver side head.

    3. Bolted to the passenger side of the engine block, above the starter solenoid.

    4. Bolted to the front passenger wheel house, in front of the strut tower.

    5. Hard to tell from the diagram - but looks like two (2) ground wires bolted to the inner frame rail on the passenger side, but could be driver side.

  10. #110
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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    What year model PCM's can be switched? Isn't it '99 and up.

    I will check all those gorunds. I have checked some before, but I will check them all.

    As far as a pick of the broken wires, this is what it looked like before hand

    When I hooked them back up I connetced each wire individually and wraped in electrical tape. Then wraped all three in electrical tape at the splice. Then wraped the whole length of the wire with heat reflective tape and then put it in wire loom. After it still wouldn't start I unhooked it just to double check and make sure it was still good and it was.

    I wished I knew a way to test the PCM and BCM. I will try and find one i can swap in there.

  11. #111
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    Guess I should have looked back a page in this thread. No doubt that is the crank position sensor. The yellow/black wire is labeled "Low Reference" in my manual, so may be a 5 volt source. The light green wire should have 12 volts and the dark blue/white wire is the signal from the sensor.

  12. #112
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    The yellow/black wire is labeled "Low Reference" in my manual, so may be a 5 volt source.
    After I saw the broken wires and before I knew it was the CPS or fixed the wires. I grounded the yellow/black wire from the PCM and the fuel pump primed. Any thoughts?? I still think my next step will be to check all the grounds listed.

    Jeff, in your book does it tell where certian items are grounded for ex the PCM.

    Can anyone tell me where each one of these is grounded "According to my Haynes book the eng sensor fuse powers the O2 sensors, stop lamp switch, Reverse inhibit solenoid, skip, shift solenoid, and the MAF"????? And where the stop lamp switch is located? Is it on the pedal?

  13. #113
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    Adding to my post above...

    1. G111 is bolted to the driver side of the engine block, behind the alternator.

    2. G110 is actually two (2) bolts at the back of the driver side head.

    3. G100 is bolted to the passenger side of the engine block, above the starter solenoid.

    4. Battery body ground is bolted to the front passenger wheel house, in front of the strut tower.

    5. G109 is comprised of (2) ground wires bolted to the inner frame rail on the driver side.

    6. G101 is bolted to the front top of the driver side wheel house, behind the electrical distribution boxes.

  14. #114
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    Looking at the face of your OBDII connector there are two (2) rows of 8 pins. Left to right across the top is 1-8 and right to left across the bottom is 9-16. Pin 2 is your serial data (purple), Pin 4 is ground (black), Pin 5 is ground (black/white) and Pin 16 is battery voltage (orange).

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Looking at the face of your OBDII connector there are two (2) rows of 8 pins. Left to right across the top is 1-8 and right to left across the bottom is 9-16. Pin 2 is your serial data (purple), Pin 4 is ground (black), Pin 5 is ground (black/white) and Pin 16 is battery voltage (orange).
    I've read other places the pin 4 is a chassis ground and pin 5 is a signal ground. I think pin 5 goes back to the computer. I've always had a good reading on pin 4. Pin 5 is the one that is giving my problems.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Adding to my post above...

    1. G111 is bolted to the driver side of the engine block, behind the alternator.

    2. G110 is actually two (2) bolts at the back of the driver side head.

    3. G100 is bolted to the passenger side of the engine block, above the starter solenoid.

    4. Battery body ground is bolted to the front passenger wheel house, in front of the strut tower.

    5. G109 is comprised of (2) ground wires bolted to the inner frame rail on the driver side.

    6. G101 is bolted to the front top of the driver side wheel house, behind the electrical distribution boxes.

    I wonder if the eng sensors (the O2 sensors, stop lamp switch, Reverse inhibit solenoid, skip, shift solenoid, and the MAF) all go to one ground or if they go to different grounds??

  17. #117
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    Good question. We're down state this weekend so my books are not accessible.

  18. #118
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    I checked all the grounds the best I could, even the two bolted to the rad support. Most of them I unbolted and cleaned up before I put the back together. Some I couldn't reach so I looked at them the best I could. Everything seemed fine and it didn't fix my problem

    My next thought was to unplug each sensor powered by the eng sendor fuse and check the ground there. But according to my Haynes book the only two with ground pin in there plug is the O2 sensors and the MAF sensors. Everything else was the pink wire coming in hot and a wire going to the PCM.

    I guess the next ste will be to check the grounds at the O2 sensors and the MAF. If they are good I will try and find where the PCM is grounded. Any thoughts??????

  19. #119
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    Checked the ground at the MAF and it does the same as the signal ground. Good with the key off but bad with the key. The O2's sensors are reading good either way. Anyone know where the MAF is grounded?? I pulled the two connectors out of the PCM. I checked every black wire to see if it was grounded I found two that were not. I'm about to search for a pin out for the PCM. The two are 80 & 41 on the blue connector
    Last edited by blackcar; 09-30-2012 at 02:54 PM.

  20. #120
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    Looks like 41 is EGR ground and 80 is eng coolant temp sensor ground.

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