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I need HELP. My car won't start

This is a discussion on I need HELP. My car won't start within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; The only ground I messed with is the one on the driver's side head when I was removing the AIR ...

  1. #61
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    The only ground I messed with is the one on the driver's side head when I was removing the AIR system. And I checked it out after the no start.

    But would a bad ground cause me to have voltage on the ground pin in the OBDII. I may be wrong but I think the only thing that would make voltage show up in a ground is a short.

  2. #62
    Member Pitchlock's Avatar
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    When my pump went out it was only putting out 25 psi and that wont start it. The the tricks of power to it, fuel out of the rail, listening for it to prime goes out the window if the psi isnt there.
    99 Z28
    U.S. NAVY
    P-3 ORION
    FLIGHT ENGINEER
    ***IBNFE***
    FLY NAVY

  3. #63
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    What does the ign relay control???

    When I pull it out and turn the key on I no longer have 8 volts on my ground pin and the fuel pump primes.

    I tried switching the relay with another and it didn't help. Something the relay powers up is putting voltage in the computer ground.

  4. #64
    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    Mean Black
    1998 Trans Am

    sounds like your short is related to the ignition relay part. Double check the wires. That relay controls ignition switch, relay and starter enable relay. Have you tried pulling out the starter relay and check for the 8 volts? Try bypassing the ignition relay with a jumper wire and see if you still get the 8 volts too.
    Last edited by JayTA98; 06-24-2012 at 06:06 PM.

  5. #65
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    If you bypass the ignition relay does that make the spark plugs fire? I put the jumper in but as soon as I did I heard a loud "fump" on the passenger's side. So I pulled it right out. The only thing I could think off was there was fuel in the chamber and the spark plug fired, but I wasn't sure and didn't want to break anything else.

  6. #66
    Smiles for 9.5 Years cammed goat's Avatar
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    The "fump" noise you described sounds like the starter trying to engage.

  7. #67
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    Bad wiring in the starter harness -- that is what is sounds like imo. Post up tonight as a reminder to me if you want some schematics uploaded.

  8. #68
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammed goat View Post
    The "fump" noise you described sounds like the starter trying to engage.
    I'm pretty sure it wasn't the starter. I've jumped the starter relay while under the hood before. It's kind of hard to describe but it sounded muffled or like it was inside something else. That's why I thought it might be the open headers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Bad wiring in the starter harness -- that is what is sounds like imo. Post up tonight as a reminder to me if you want some schematics uploaded.
    That would be helpful. I would like to see what all is powered by the ign relay.

    Do you think it is in the starter even though the starter turns over fine and I get the 8 volts when the key is in run, but the starter not engaged? That was one of my first thoughts. I pushed the wires at the starter over to get them further away from the header. I have looked at them the best I could and didn't see anything wrong. To check them out any further I will need to either pull the starter or the header. I think it would be easier to pull the header.

  9. #69
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    This is the schematic for the starting system:


  10. #70
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    Thanks Jeff, Do you have one that has the ign relay?

  11. #71
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    it's right in the middle of that schematic.....it's just labeled starter relay on that schematic.

  12. #72
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    I've got an ign relay and a starter relay.

    The ign relay has a pink wire.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackcar View Post
    Thanks Jeff, Do you have one that has the ign relay?
    Pic is too small on my work computer to really see -- let me know if you need another diagram this evening and I'll look at it tonight.

  14. #74
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
    '02 Z28 parting-out

    The one you put up covers the starter relay and ign switch. Which may come in handy and has been saved to my computer. But right now I need to see what is in line after the ign relay. I have a Haynes book but it does not show the ign relay.

    Thanks for you help Jeff.

  15. #75
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    Black & Blue
    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    Okay, paging through the manuals now and random posting things I see:

    - there is a ground wire above the starter that is bolted to the engine block

    - fuel pump power supply passes through both the 50 amp ENG CTRL fuse and 20 amp FUEL PUMP fuse before heading to the fuel pump relay

    - the ignition relay and starter relay both draw power through the 50 amp IGN fuse

    - the ignition relay passes power to the engine control, engine sensor and injector fuses, among others



  16. #76
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    Thanks Jeff. Looks like it powers 6 fuses. I should be able to pull those one-by-one and narrow it down even more.

  17. #77
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    Good luck and hope you are able to get this problem solved. At least your driving season is a lot longer than ours.

  18. #78
    Member blackcar's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro SS
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    I thought I had it fixed, but still no start. I had someone hold the volt meter on while I checked and wiggled wires. Numbers started jumping all over the place by the starter. Found 3 wires that have been cut/broken. I don't think I broke them. But I might have when pulling the manifold out. One of them is yellow w/ a black stripe. Black stripe means ground most of the time so I touched to a ground. When I did the fuel pump kicked in and I had no more short/bad ground. So I grounded the wire and tried to start it. Still won't start.

    I wonder if the 3 wires have been broken since before I got the car or did I break them taking the manifold out.
    I also wonder what they go to. Looks like if I follow then up they go to the PCM, but I don't know where they are coming/broke off from and if they are needed.

  19. #79
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    Can you get a pic?

  20. #80
    Senior Member JayTA98's Avatar
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    1998 Trans Am

    according to the diagram on post #64 yel/blk connects between the starter relay and the BCM. I don't think is a ground.

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