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I have another theoretical for you guys.

This is a discussion on I have another theoretical for you guys. within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Soo. I want a WS6 as my first car when I'm 16. I am a huge car nut and I ...

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    I have another theoretical for you guys.

    Soo. I want a WS6 as my first car when I'm 16. I am a huge car nut and I love the LS1 motor. I already have parts lists made of what I want to do to the car when I have it. This includes a Mutha Thumpr camshaft, 92mm intake manifold and throttle body, and 42LB "green giant" injectors. My question is, after I install these, can I just start the car and drive it, or do I have to get it tuned first?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    I have another theoretical for you guys.

    any time you do major changes to the engine you'll need to get a tune. It may start but won't run very well for long. These motors everything is run by the tune. Only way to avoid it is by going carb. And that gives you another set of issues
    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/my-6-liter-build-174257/

    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f8/my-8-8-rear-build-165553/

    6.0L Block - Forged 403 built, breaking it in , Polluter Stg3 Cam, FAST 102mm Intake, NW102 TB, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, Truck Coil Packs, LS3 Fuel Injectors, CC Pacesetter LT Headers, TS&P ORY, QTP e-Cutout, Magnaflow Muffler, 104mm Air Lid & Line Lock, Catch Can, Stage 2 T56 w/Viper shaft, PRO 5.0 Shifter, Tick MC, Monster Stg 4 Clutch, QT SFI BH, MWC DSL, UMI: SFC, PHB, LCA's, LCA Relocation Brackets & TA, Hotchkis Springs (1" Drop), YR1 Snowflake Wheels wrapped in NT555 tires & Custom Fab Ford 8.8 rear w/4.10 Yukon Gears, WSQ Hood, 3"CM Strange Eng Drive Shaft.

    Horsepower never lies, but is often lied about!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    any time you do major changes to the engine you'll need to get a tune. It may start but won't run very well for long. These motors everything is run by the tune. Only way to avoid it is by going carb. And that gives you another set of issues
    Got it. We were planning and we were thinking once we got the cam and injectors installed we would load the car onto a trailer and tow it to a dyno for tuning

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    One more question. I plan on using Edelbrock's ignition coil covers. Do I still need fuel rail covers too? Will fuel rail covers cover my Edelbrocks?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    IMHO save your money for something else. You can pick up a set of C5 Fuel Rail Covers for under $100 but you'll still need to trim for clearance on the passenger side.

    Those Edelbrock's are gear towards looking like old school hotrods that have LS engines put in them. They'll look out of place in a 4th Gen.


    Now regarding your cam choice.....any particular reason for that cam? It's designed for a 9:1 compression, the LS1 runs about 10.4. So you're stepping down and losing some power. It looks like this would be a good cam for a truck or possible FI build.

    Before you start purchasing parts...you gotta have a plan. What kinda build you're looking for?

    Street, Track, DD, Show, Combo?

    Each one of these has it's pro's & cons, not to forget costs.

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    I think it'll be a street and track car. What I'm looking for is I want the car to be really loud, with a rumbly idle, make it sound like it has that Thumpr cam in it, I want really quick throttle response (like if you barely tap the pedal the car will move) and I want some horsepower gains but not much.

    TLR I want it loud and fast

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    Can you tell me everything I need? If I'm doing a camshaft and injectors, do I need to do pushrods too? And is 42lb injectors too big?

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Yes. You also need upgraded springs to handle the lift of the camshaft you choose. You also should get an upgraded oil pump and timing chain.

    Do you plan on also upgrading the suspension and drive train, or just adding power and wait for shit to break?
    It's on jackstands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Yes. You also need upgraded springs to handle the lift of the camshaft you choose. You also should get an upgraded oil pump and timing chain.

    Do you plan on also upgrading the suspension and drive train, or just adding power and wait for shit to break?
    I'm 15 but I'm a car but so I'm still learning a lot of this stuff but I still know a lot. I want to cam it for a small power increase but I don't know what all I need to do for suspension and drivetrain.
    Last edited by CrazyCalvinWilliams; 06-14-2016 at 09:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Nice edit lol.

    You need to base cam specs on more than just noise. And as for best sounding, everyone will have an opinion and none will be right or wrong. I may like a sound you really hate or vice-versa.

    Heads, headers, exhaust, mufflers, etc. will affect the sound just as much.

    The Thunder Racing TREX has a lot of overlap for an off the shelf cam, but you'll need all the supporting mods for driveability and durability sake. It sounds like you want a cam with overlap.

    I'd suggest scrolling through some threads and listening to different setups.

    Modifications can get expensive quickly. You really need to determine what your budget will be. At 16, it likely won't be much. You can spend $25K on mods and still not be done or the fastest guy in town. Ask me how I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Nice edit lol.

    You need to base cam specs on more than just noise. And as for best sounding, everyone will have an opinion and none will be right or wrong. I may like a sound you really hate or vice-versa.

    Heads, headers, exhaust, mufflers, etc. will affect the sound just as much.

    The Thunder Racing TREX has a lot of overlap for an off the shelf cam, but you'll need all the supporting mods for driveability and durability sake. It sounds like you want a cam with overlap.

    I'd suggest scrolling through some threads and listening to different setups.

    Modifications can get expensive quickly. You really need to determine what your budget will be. At 16, it likely won't be much. You can spend $25K on mods and still not be done or the fastest guy in town. Ask me how I know.
    Hey man, thanks for the tips and advice. Im thinking of doing a Flowmaster American Thunder exhaust system, and my other ideas are a 92mm intake manifold and throttle body, a Volant cold air intake, but I plan on keeping the suspension and drivetrain stock because it's already a WS6. As for the camshaft, noise is one thing, but in terms of horsepower gain, I'm not looking for too much, maybe 50 or so. If I'm doing a camshaft, is there anything else I need?

  12. #12
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    02 35th LE Camaro SS

    The best modification that compliments a camshaft is a stall.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    pajeff02 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    The best modification that compliments a camshaft is a stall.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    I thought the best mod' that compliments a camshaft is high flowing cylinder heads?

    But seriously, a good set of cylinder heads would be high on my priority list if I was trying to make some power, which I am...
    SLP Air Lid/Smooth Bellows
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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whamhammer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    The best modification that compliments a camshaft is a stall.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    I thought the best mod' that compliments a camshaft is high flowing cylinder heads?

    But seriously, a good set of cylinder heads would be high on my priority list if I was trying to make some power, which I am...
    Driveability would be way better with a matching stall vs. stock heads or aftermarket imo.

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    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Driveability would be way better with a matching stall vs. stock heads or aftermarket imo.
    No one said to do just one

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    Really interested in this package... If I pick the sinister cam what LSA and rod length do I need? Cam Kit, HAWKS LS1/LS6 Stage 2 Camshaft Package - Hawks Third Generation

    Even though I am a teen I still know a lot about the engines and I can install this myself, I just need to know all the parts I need for it to work together right.
    Last edited by CrazyCalvinWilliams; 06-27-2016 at 04:44 PM.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    When ever you change the valve train setup like a tune, you need to measure for correct pushrod length. Otherwise you risk serious damage to your build. Comp cams sells a pushrod checker for $20. You will need one that measures from 6.8" to 7.8". This kit with the rods is assuming you are using stock heads and not milling the heads, as well as using oem spec thickness gaskets and oem rockers. All of the following as well as the cam effect the valve geometry, but that's not all. The length of the piston rods and cam stroke also do to. I'm stressing this info because I'd hate to see you put so much work and $$ into a build and then shortcut it by not measuring for push rod length.

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...FZM6gQodgV4HvQ

    We have an instructional thread to help you use it.

    How to Measuring for Correct Push Rod Length.
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 06-28-2016 at 07:03 AM.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Naaman's Avatar
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    OP, if you want "instant" throttle response, then a big, giant lopey cam is not the answer (this will reduce low end throttle response in favor of high rpm performance). If you want loud, then get a loud muffler... much cheaper than a cam, and doesn't require all the extra stuff on top of the engine building (such as tune and valvetrain internals, etc).

    If you want good throttle response, then a ported/polished throttle body is the cheapest, easiest way to do that. Also, I can't recommend the following for the 10-bolt, but many will disagree: swap the 3.42s for 3.73s and you'll get that snappy engine response you're looking for. You might try 4.10s, but... then you'd probably also want a second car.

    Finally, you're 15. Driving in real life is not like what you see in Fast and Furious. Cars like these need to be respected. It is way too easy for someone who is not seasoned and mature to get himself into trouble with more horsepower than he knows what to do with.

    If you want to get into a muscle car, and your parents are cool with it, that's great. But for the sake of your own safety and everyone else's on the road, the first two "mods" you should be looking at (in the following order) are: 1) the driver experience mod, and 2) the best, highest performance tires that you can afford and are appropriate for where you live (a summer tire will work in many places, but if you get any kind of snow/ice, then you'll need all-seasons). Having crap tires will magnify the effects of a lack of experience to... like... infinity. My recommendations for tires include Michelin Pilot Super Sports or A/S-3s or Continental's high performance "DW" summer tires. Others will have different input with regards to a good tire.

    Having said all that, if all you want is "a little bit" more power, then consider the following options:

    P/P throttle body
    LS6 intake
    Air lid
    Cat-back exhaust

    You can also look into the following and see if the trade-offs are worthwhile to you:

    Underdrive pulley
    ECM tune (no trade-offs, really, other than it costs money and with just bolt-ons, may not yield significant gains for the dollars it costs)
    3.73 rear end gears (or 3.23 if you're auto, in which case, you'd also want a stalled converter).
    Lid, Throttle Body, LS6 Intake, Heads, Cam, Magnaflow, LS7 Clutch, SFCs, STB, Panhard Bar, Strano Springs, Hollow Sway Bars, Poly/Roto LCAs, Konis, MGW Shifter

  19. #19
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    ^^Agree with all EXCEPT 4.10 gears in a 10 bolt. It will grenade, not a matter of if but when.

    I have 4.10 gears but it is in a 8.8 rear that was purpose built. Gear ratio upgrades have several factors for best output. Auto's vs manual is the biggest difference. Manuals handle higher gears better than autos but autos can shift faster than manuals ever can with tuning and stall. It's why most track cars are auto's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naaman View Post
    OP, if you want "instant" throttle response, then a big, giant lopey cam is not the answer (this will reduce low end throttle response in favor of high rpm performance). If you want loud, then get a loud muffler... much cheaper than a cam, and doesn't require all the extra stuff on top of the engine building (such as tune and valvetrain internals, etc).

    If you want good throttle response, then a ported/polished throttle body is the cheapest, easiest way to do that. Also, I can't recommend the following for the 10-bolt, but many will disagree: swap the 3.42s for 3.73s and you'll get that snappy engine response you're looking for. You might try 4.10s, but... then you'd probably also want a second car.

    Finally, you're 15. Driving in real life is not like what you see in Fast and Furious. Cars like these need to be respected. It is way too easy for someone who is not seasoned and mature to get himself into trouble with more horsepower than he knows what to do with.

    If you want to get into a muscle car, and your parents are cool with it, that's great. But for the sake of your own safety and everyone else's on the road, the first two "mods" you should be looking at (in the following order) are: 1) the driver experience mod, and 2) the best, highest performance tires that you can afford and are appropriate for where you live (a summer tire will work in many places, but if you get any kind of snow/ice, then you'll need all-seasons). Having crap tires will magnify the effects of a lack of experience to... like... infinity. My recommendations for tires include Michelin Pilot Super Sports or A/S-3s or Continental's high performance "DW" summer tires. Others will have different input with regards to a good tire.

    Having said all that, if all you want is "a little bit" more power, then consider the following options:

    P/P throttle body
    LS6 intake
    Air lid
    Cat-back exhaust

    You can also look into the following and see if the trade-offs are worthwhile to you:

    Underdrive pulley
    ECM tune (no trade-offs, really, other than it costs money and with just bolt-ons, may not yield significant gains for the dollars it costs)
    3.73 rear end gears (or 3.23 if you're auto, in which case, you'd also want a stalled converter).
    Thanks for the tips man! I've always been a car enthusiast since I was little and even here today I'm expanding my knowledge on engines and stuff. I'll definitely look into the throttle body and muffler

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