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How hard to change 160 ' T-stat? Looking f/advice

This is a discussion on How hard to change 160 ' T-stat? Looking f/advice within the General Help forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by 5abivt Are you serious? Do you guys race on your driveways or something !! I like to ...

  1. #21
    Veteran 0rion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    Are you serious? Do you guys race on your driveways or something !! I like to do roll ons and drive very fast on the local freeways. lower coolant temps = lower IAT and allows the stock ecm to increase timing.
    I race at a drag strip because I'm smart like that. How's that 160 stat going to benefit you in the staging lanes? Ever heard of heat soak? Also, once you're up to speed your ect isn't going to effect your IAT the least bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    I race at a drag strip because I'm smart like that. How's that 160 stat going to benefit you in the staging lanes? Ever heard of heat soak? Also, once you're up to speed your ect isn't going to effect your IAT the least bit.
    Totally understood but I don't drag race. Not very often anyways. I'm not questioning where you race and how you do it that's not they point I'm trying to make. How is the 160 stat going to benefit me in the staging lanes? it's not. I made that point already in my last post comparing 2 cars that are sitting and idleing. If you read that post I wouldn't have had to say it again.
    I've heard of heat soak. Try tuning many supercharged/turbocharged cars on the dyno for countless hours. It's a disaster with heat soak. It may not affect IAT what I meant was the air inside the intake manifold. A lot of cars run coolant through the manifold and cooler coolant equals less heat transferred through the metal/plastic to the air inside.

    Running a cooler stat on the freeway will allow it to pull slightly more heat out of the cylinder heads. I don't think you will argue that because at freeway speeds both our fans are not even on and the air is keeping everything cool. So there's no difference at higher speeds between a car that has the fans tuned and mine is there? That's the only point I am trying to make. Wether or not You like what I do with my car is not what I'm trying to argue.

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    Single Malt rbob93's Avatar
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    I've been following all this & understand your point, but you keep talking about your car at idle & freeway speeds.
    I have to ask, don't you have to drive your car around town to get to the freeway, & don't you ever drive under freeway speeds?

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    putting a 160 stat in there without changing the fan speeds is pointless....end of story.

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    A used $100 or less hand held tuner will readjust your fans, among other things like tire size for your speedo, etc. I added the 160 stat and reset my fans, works and runs fine. Cooler too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99'CajunFirehawk157 View Post
    A used $100 or less hand held tuner will readjust your fans, among other things like tire size for your speedo, etc. I added the 160 stat and reset my fans, works and runs fine. Cooler too.

    I agree -- just be careful as some models are VIN specific. Once they are set they will not work with another vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbob93 View Post
    I've been following all this & understand your point, but you keep talking about your car at idle & freeway speeds.
    I have to ask, don't you have to drive your car around town to get to the freeway, & don't you ever drive under freeway speeds?
    I do drive around town. But when I'm not running it hard why should it matter to me how hot the coolant is getting? The fans cannot compete with airflow from rolling down the street at 30 mph. So everyones argument is the fans need to be set because it matters so much what happens below 30 mph?

    here's what I'm thinking in my head. I slow down from a brief cruise at 50mph at a stoplight. Fans aren't even on because the air was enough to keep the temps down. A stang pulls up beside me. we go. By the time I get into 2nd gear I'm going so fast that the airflow through the rad at speed will not even allow the temp to climb enough to kick the fans on. So basically having the fans tuned lower in THAT specific scenario doesn't matter does it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99'CajunFirehawk157 View Post
    A used $100 or less hand held tuner will readjust your fans, among other things like tire size for your speedo, etc. I added the 160 stat and reset my fans, works and runs fine. Cooler too.
    I couldn't agree with you more. if you want your car running cooler all the time then set the fans lower. I am not saying it's not worth it. I am just disagreeing with Orion that not tuning it is completely worthless because it isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    I do drive around town. But when I'm not running it hard why should it matter to me how hot the coolant is getting? The fans cannot compete with airflow from rolling down the street at 30 mph. So everyones argument is the fans need to be set because it matters so much what happens below 30 mph?

    here's what I'm thinking in my head. I slow down from a brief cruise at 50mph at a stoplight. Fans aren't even on because the air was enough to keep the temps down. A stang pulls up beside me. we go. By the time I get into 2nd gear I'm going so fast that the airflow through the rad at speed will not even allow the temp to climb enough to kick the fans on. So basically having the fans tuned lower in THAT specific scenario doesn't matter does it?
    I see were you are comeing from, but what happens if you get stuck in a trafic jam? Now I understand that the fans will eventualy kick on but your car will heat up more than it has to and they could kick on sooner to help keep your car cooler if you reprogram it, and what you say is true you dont really need your fans going down the road but it is nice to have them, and to have them set to the right perimeters just incase you do need them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Customta98 View Post
    I see were you are comeing from, but what happens if you get stuck in a trafic jam? Now I understand that the fans will eventualy kick on but your car will heat up more than it has to and they could kick on sooner to help keep your car cooler if you reprogram it, and what you say is true you dont really need your fans going down the road but it is nice to have them, and to have them set to the right perimeters just incase you do need them.
    If I get stuck in traffic I'll probably have the a/c on and both fans will be running Again I'm not disagreeing with you at all. The car Will run cooler with the fans turning on sooner but personally it doesn't bother me if the car runs hot while I;m sitting in traffic. At the very least it produces less emissions running hotter

    Oh and btw I stuck in a little LED light and wired it into the fan a few hours ago when i went off for a 35 km drive each way to get something done.I ran the wire and taped it to my windshield. The WHOLE way there AND back My fan didn't kick on once. This included getting on the highway, a few red lights and slight construction delay on the freeway. When I got home I let it idle for a few minutes and thenthe led light lit up when the fan kicked on.

    So my point is I went for a spirited drive late at night with no traffic to get somewhere and drove it a little hard here and there (on ramps )etc. My fans didnt even turn on. So how was the 160 stat mod pointless ? because According to Orion I put in a 160 stat and because I didn't change the fans settings it was a waste of a mod; end of story.
    Last edited by 5abivt; 08-07-2009 at 12:41 AM.

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    Sorry guys... Orion is right. A radiator is simply a heat exchanger. The coolant absorbs heat from the engine and passes it through the radiator fins where air flowing through the core removes heat and cools the fluid. The thermostat acts to control the temperature in that it begins to open at a certain temperature and allows coolant to flow through the system. Within a few degrees of its intended operating temperature the thermostat should be fully open.

    The fan point must be reset for this sytem to work properly. Granted, traveling down a highway there is sufficient airflow to keep the temperature below the fan kick on point. However, once you drop below a certain speed this is no longer true and the system will begin to retain excess heat. Lowering the fan trigger point is necessary otherwise your 160 degree thermostat is not doing you any good under this operating condition and the engine temperature will climb to the stock trigger point of something like 205-212 degrees, if I recall correctly.

    At this point your engine is at the same temperature it would be with a stock thermostat. This heat is what you are trying to avoid by the installation of a 160 thermostat in the first place. As we all know, warm air is less dense than cool air; and, per the laws of thermodynamics, heat flows to cold. This means that your engine is operating less efficiently and all the components in your engine compartment are heat soaking to a greater degree than they would if the fans were reset.

    Furthermore, the temperature range over which your engine will heat cycle will be far greater than if the fans were correctly set for your cooler thermostat. Instead of a 15 to 20 degree range, your engine temperature may be climbing and falling by as much as 40 degrees.

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    A data logger would show you the actual temps. during all driving conditions and that is when you could see the amount of rise and fall. Mine logged 177 while driving and would go up 10 at a red light, then drop back after a few miles. I agree that temps. will rise up to the old levels if you are never able to drive alot without stopping, but I also do not want my fans on all the time dragging down the power because electrical draw is a load on the engine also.
    Setting too low would cause them to be on more than I want, maybe around 190 would be ok but any lower and the normal system cannot remove enough heat to make it worth while with the 160 stats running around 177 anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTODD View Post
    A data logger would show you the actual temps. during all driving conditions and that is when you could see the amount of rise and fall. Mine logged 177 while driving and would go up 10 at a red light, then drop back after a few miles. I agree that temps. will rise up to the old levels if you are never able to drive alot without stopping, but I also do not want my fans on all the time dragging down the power because electrical draw is a load on the engine also.
    Setting too low would cause them to be on more than I want, maybe around 190 would be ok but any lower and the normal system cannot remove enough heat to make it worth while with the 160 stats running around 177 anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Po View Post
    2002 Camaro Z28 Bolt ons, Flowmaster catback w/3" QTP electric cutout, Superchips tuned, Granatelli MAF, SLP cold air induction Lid & filter, ZEX powertune plugs, Taylor 10.4mm wires, 160 T-stat w/fan control, Eibach sportlines & BFG-KDW's on 17" SLP SS rims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTODD View Post
    A data logger would show you the actual temps. during all driving conditions and that is when you could see the amount of rise and fall. Mine logged 177 while driving and would go up 10 at a red light, then drop back after a few miles. I agree that temps. will rise up to the old levels if you are never able to drive alot without stopping, but I also do not want my fans on all the time dragging down the power because electrical draw is a load on the engine also.
    Setting too low would cause them to be on more than I want, maybe around 190 would be ok but any lower and the normal system cannot remove enough heat to make it worth while with the 160 stats running around 177 anyway.
    Actualy the alternator dose not increase speed/drag at all when the fans come on it creates the same charge whether the fans are on or off it might go up a little if you rev your engine but not much. Therefore it will not cause the engine to loose power the alternator stays the same as your other accesories because of the serp belt staying the same speed as the crank's harmonic balancer (the faster the harmonic balancer spins the faster accesories puleys spin), plus the fans get power from the battery and the alternator recharges it, if the fans turning on hurt the performance of anything it would be the battey... but they don't.

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    Just a different point of view here:

    The statement that without changing the fans changing the stat does not help assumes that the fans control temperature exclusively. Often the the circulation, and radiator are enough to control temp and in that case the engine will run cooler. Also, the fans turn off at 35 mph, so in those conditions it is running cooler. Also note that turning on the AC turns on the fans irrespective of temperature.

    Now granted, if you're sitting in traffic or the staging lanes for any period of time - the fan temp control will be the factor, but in many other conditions, just a lower temp stat will help.

    Just my .02

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddySS View Post
    Just a different point of view here:

    The statement that without changing the fans changing the stat does not help assumes that the fans control temperature exclusively. Often the the circulation, and radiator are enough to control temp and in that case the engine will run cooler. Also, the fans turn off at 35 mph, so in those conditions it is running cooler. Also note that turning on the AC turns on the fans irrespective of temperature.

    Now granted, if you're sitting in traffic or the staging lanes for any period of time - the fan temp control will be the factor, but in many other conditions, just a lower temp stat will help.

    Just my .02
    help what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Customta98 View Post
    Actualy the alternator dose not increase speed/drag at all when the fans come on it creates the same charge whether the fans are on or off it might go up a little if you rev your engine but not much. Therefore it will not cause the engine to loose power the alternator stays the same as your other accesories because of the serp belt staying the same speed as the crank's harmonic balancer (the faster the harmonic balancer spins the faster accesories puleys spin), plus the fans get power from the battery and the alternator recharges it, if the fans turning on hurt the performance of anything it would be the battey... but they don't.

    This is false...

    Really.

    Energy is not free, you have to put in more than you get out. I could write a few paragraphs about it, but before you argue I would suggest Googling principles of electrical generation first.

    As far as the stat goes, you need to adjust your fans down to make it more effective. If you guys think you are cruising in the 180s with or without tuning though... well you aren't I can't believe something that most people don't even consider significant has gotten a few pages worth of discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 0rion View Post
    help what?
    Help the negine to run cooler....

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